Check your math Q... 0.1% is 1 in a thousand. 0.01% is 1 in 10,000.

Agree with the general response that it depends on the type & cause of the malfunction. I’ve shot a few thousand rounds through both of my carry guns and so far no malfunctions w/factory ammo.

I used to be a hard line zero issues allowed for a carry gun type person. That is when I didn't shoot as much as I do now.

My magic number before considering a gun reliable was 500 rounds without issue. Then, I bought a P365. That gun made it to almost the gold standard of 1,000 rounds and then the wheels fell off.

Now, I'll run a gun to 200 rounds and if no issues, I'll carry it. The magic number of 500 or 1,000 rounds without issue is nothing more than a false prophet and a number. If you shoot enough, all guns will fail. ALL OF THEM.

I shoot an average of 30,000 rounds per year and I've observed all kinds of stoppages. As a Law Enforcement trainer and competitive shooter, I've seen all makes and models fail. For those who have zero issues, keep shooting. You'll experience one eventually. If not, you are not shooting enough of those "100 flawless rounds."

I had a Beretta 92FS that NEVER jammed. And it was not a safe queen. I shot IDPA with it heavily for a couple of years and sporadically after that. Thousands of rounds, if not over 5,000. Any ammo. Any state of lubrication. Didn't matter.

I also had a 226 that jammed only with one brand of low-cost ammo. (I don't remember the brand.) With any other ammo, it was perfect.

Revolvers are damn near perfect.

So near perfection is possible. I wouldn't require a pistol to be perfect, but it better be damn close. Less than 0.1% failure rate (which is 1 out of a 1000).

I have been shooting a CZ P09 in my USPSA production division for the last 2 years and it's one of my favorite range guns. It has run without a single failure of any kind for over 8500 rounds. The last 3000 has been without any cleaning.
I would accept this pistol as a duty sidearm any day of the week.

Any failure I can't immediately explain away as due to ammo or magazines is cause for immediate concern in a defensive pistol.

Given it takes time it takes to diagnose errors, I'd suppose my number is 0% until I can figure out what's causing it.

After that, it depends on how dirty the pistol is. IE, if I just cleaned the gun and I get a failure in the first box, I'm going to be very concerned. That's a failure that's likely within the amount of ammunition I carry on my person (not that I'd necessarily get to that round in a fight), and may mean that I REALLY need to adjust my cleaning, lubrication, and reassembly techniques; conversely, if I know I haven't cleaned a gun for two or three range sessions (450-900 rounds) and it chokes, I'm much more likely to chalk that up to my own laziness and make a mental note that the gun may not be 100% reliable after several hundred rounds have gone through it between cleanings.

When you start to get close to the 1000-round-since-cleaned mark, a failure rate as high as 5-10% would neither surprise nor bother me all that much, especially if I discovered through testing that I could knock that rate back down by replenishing lube rather than conducting full field strip and cleaning. As much as we joke about the zombie apocalypse, it's not very likely, and that's the only circumstance I could imagine having to put several hundred rounds through my pistol without having the time to at least wipe the thing down.

Yeah, it'd be nice to shoot a two thousand round class and never have to clean my gun, but I'm not sure I'd willingly subject it to that level of accelerated wear anyway when I have the opportunity to keep it properly lubricated.

On the other end of the spectrum, I had a P228 that could not get over the two hundred round mark without exhibiting light primer strikes. A trip to SIG moved the round count before failure up but didn't fix it, and I wound up selling that pistol because nobody could provide me with a satisfactory reason for the continued malfunction.

It's interesting to watch some competitors at the steel shoots. I'm not a serious competitor and I'm not competitive, and I don't use an expensive pistol or gear, really...but there are quite a few at those shoots who are very, very serious (and very, very good, too).

I see a lot of expensive firearms, very fancy belts and holsters and mag carriers, even shirts printed with all kinds of sponsors. Many of them sport big 1911's with large funnels, oversize safeties red dots, compensators that look like they belong on a .50BMG, and are just shy of a crew served weapon...they're invested. Plus the wagon they haul around all their support gear. Serious, serious guys.

It's interesting to watch them shoot because most of them shoot on a level I'll never achieve in this lifetime or the next (assuming I come back as something other than a housefly or a virus), but also because it's not uncommon for them to have some kind of malfunction on a stage. Once in a while it takes the out of the action and they stop, but sometimes they're up there tapping racking, reinserting, etc, and I think as I watch how important malfunction drills should be, and if it's happening to them, it's probably going to happen to me. And it does, sometimes.

Maybe I didn't seat the mag fully as I moved from one box to the next and when I fire the next shot it comes up dry. The unseated magazine falls out. People snicker, and somewhere a coyote wails. Sagebrush rolls across the stage, and I drive a new magazine home, rack the slide, learn, and move on.

Maybe that case I reloaded for the 9th time finally had a head separation or a little piece broke off in the extractor. Maybe the magazine I dropped on the last stage got stepped on by someone before it got picked up and handed to me with the brass...or maybe it's something else and I won't know because I'm too focused on downrange and lose the opportunity to find out.

I like a pistol to be able to go at least a thousand rounds without a hitch; and most of mine do, most of the time. There are too many variables to paint it as a one-stop fit, though, and one needs to consider the reasons it failed, hesitated, etc, along with the circumstances, ammunition, conditions of the weapon (clean, lubed, etc), how it was being shot (dont blame it for not locking open when the thumb was riding the slide stop release), etc.

Malfunction drills are just as important as anything else. Other side of the coin, for a reason.

quote:

Originally posted by Dakor:
Check your math Q... 0.1% is 1 in a thousand. 0.01% is 1 in 10,000..

Damn, you're absolutely right. How the heck did I mess that up. I pride myself on these number things.

quote:

Originally posted by 12131:

quote:

Originally posted by Dakor:
Check your math Q... 0.1% is 1 in a thousand. 0.01% is 1 in 10,000..

Damn, you're absolutely right. How the heck did I mess that up. I pride myself on these number things.

No worries. You’ve wisely corrected me once or twice over the years on my pistol knowledge; something I take pride in.

I have a little caveat to my answer. Reliable is a function of gun and shooter.

Every time I go to the range (35-40 times per year) I pull my P938 out of my pocket and run 50-100 rounds through the pistol. If it runs without a single malfunction while covered with pocket lint and hay chaff, I am confident it will function in my time of need. If I experience one or more malfunctions, then I go about finding a permanent fix for that issue.

Until my wife started shooting regularly in December, my P938 had made a year's worth of trips without a malfunction and I was very pleased and confident. In her hands, the pistol will drop the mag somewhere around the 4th or 5th round. I attribute it to to the new extended mag I bought for her, but I cannot duplicate the problem and I cannot see a problem with her grip or technique. My three regular mags function flawlessly in her hands, but the extended drops nearly every time for her.

Thus, I say my pistol remains my reliable carry gun with the standard mags. I am concerned that my wife will eventually experience an issue with the standard mags dropping, so until proven not to be the case, my P938 is not reliable enough for her to carry.

(Never) with parts that are within spec. Of course you qualify the firearm. Now, I will say that I look for mechanical reliability of the core platform. I take out (or subtract) my induced malfs, magazine malfs, ammo malfs, parts that are beyond their life, etc. I don't expect any firearm to function as advertised with a gummed up action, mag, or bad ammo.

quote:

It's interesting to watch some competitors at the steel shoots.

Keep in mind, they're running their guns right on the edge. Light springs, light ammo, etc. They're almost begging for a failure some of the times.

quote:

Originally posted by parabellum:
zero zero zero

Agreed. Can't have any doubts.