I recently watched the OpSpec video where Mr. Jones explains and demos the effects of grip pressure specifically relating to Glocks. I like the Glock platform for its utility and simple aesthetics, but unfortunately I suffer from shooting it to the left as well. I also have small hands so that doesn't help much in that there are few pistols where I can obtain an optimal fit. My question is could someone explain why certain pistols shoot straight no matter how much pressure is applied and why certain ones tend to shoot left?

Proper grip is front strap to backstrap. Shooting left happens for the right handed shooter when wrapping the firearm and tightening trip like a fist. The hand curlsm thevwrist curles, and the shit goes left.

Focus on the grip as a pressing of front strap and backstrap toward each other, rather than encircling and squeezing the grip.

A two-handed grip augments that further by providing side support with the palms. Even in the two-hand grip, use the fingers of the support hand to wrap the fingers of the shooting hand, squeeze them and press them toward the backstrap.

The left break occurs as grip pressure is increased at the anticipated shot, unconsciously colling and curling the hand. Likewise, shots going low left are also pilled down with shot anticipation.

Agree. In addition, I've noticed the following in our NRA classes with some Glock shooters.

Some use too little trigger finger (near tip) and place it too low (very bottom) on the Glock trigger. This will accentuate any low-left problems. Solution is to place finger a little higher and move contact point a little more back towards the first joint.

Also, every handgun platform has it's own trigger style. Shooters who have experience on one tend to mimic the trigger control on the new platform. The classic near finger tip method used on 1911's does not work well on Glocks, for example. The shooter has to adapt to the trigger used. It's how the trigger wants to be manipulated, not how the shooter wants to manipulate the trigger that matters.

quote:

Originally posted by sns3guppy:
The hand curls, the wrist curls, and the shit goes left.

.

Ain't dat da troof!

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

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Originally posted by RichardC:

quote:

Originally posted by sns3guppy:
The hand curls, the wrist curls, and the shit goes left.

.

Ain't dat da troof!

That was actualy supposed to say "the shot goes left." Trying to type on an ipad. I think I need glasses. But yes, it does go left.

This is one of those design things that baffles my mind. I have *never* had this happen with a 1911. It is probably the most commonly reported problem with a Glock however. Sure you could train around it...but why? There are other things I'd much prefer to focus my training on. Especially when there is a design that seems to avoid this problem.

So here's a question for all the super-customized Glock users -- does the grip enhancement/reduction/trigger job reduce or fix this? And I'd be curious if the new Gen 5 grip also fixes it.

I never had any issues shooting a Glock or any other polymer pistol-320, HK, etc.. You have to get used to the pistol you are shooting, no matter what it is. The 1911 has a smoother trigger and weighs more than most pistols,which makes it easier to shoot for most people.

This does occur with other polymer guns on the rare occasion, but the Glock seems to manifest itself with the problem. It was just my dumb luck that I got to see enough rounds go down range in academy classes that I figured it out. Which was cool, because I suffered from it something horrible.

The grip I use with a Glock is the same grip I use with all other pistols. Front to back, tight, but not too tight to manifest the trigger finger not to be isolated. I say that as I don't have one grip for Glocks, and something else for everything else.

I'm glad this video is beneficial to a lot of people. Usually in classes, I have a few Glock shooters that have the problem, and by the end of the class it is gone.

WRT the Gen5 guns, I doubt that this problem will go away. With a lot of the custom guns it is still present. At least, the guns without some radical grip reshaping. I should be able to compile some data by next weekend, as I have a blue label 17 coming this week.

I assume this phenomenon doesn't manifest itself with the M&P series, 1.0 or 2.0? Never shot one so I'm genuinely curious.

I haven't experienced it but watch my buddy struggle. My theory is the blocky grip exacerbates it. The squared corners make for a point of (inadvertent) leverage. But that's totally just my theory.

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Originally posted by BuddyChryst:
I haven't experienced it but watch my buddy struggle. My theory is the blocky grip exacerbates it. The squared corners make for a point of (inadvertent) leverage. But that's totally just my theory.

I've always thought the same thing. Along with the trigger finger position issue I mentioned earlier.

While the 1911 is also "slab sided", the grip width is much thinner. I've got two pistols that are natural shooters, with no displacement issues. The 1911 and P320.

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Originally posted by jljones:
This does occur with other polymer guns on the rare occasion, but the Glock seems to manifest itself with the problem. It was just my dumb luck that I got to see enough rounds go down range in academy classes that I figured it out. Which was cool, because I suffered from it something horrible.

The grip I use with a Glock is the same grip I use with all other pistols. Front to back, tight, but not too tight to manifest the trigger finger not to be isolated. I say that as I don't have one grip for Glocks, and something else for everything else.

I'm glad this video is beneficial to a lot of people. Usually in classes, I have a few Glock shooters that have the problem, and by the end of the class it is gone.

WRT the Gen5 guns, I doubt that this problem will go away. With a lot of the custom guns it is still present. At least, the guns without some radical grip reshaping. I should be able to compile some data by next weekend, as I have a blue label 17 coming this week.

Thanks, jljones. I'd be interested to see how well the Gen 5s perform. I'll probably pick one up once I recover from putting a new roof on the house

I wonder if it is the Glock grip shape that exacerbates it as BuddyChryst suggets. I have tiny hands -- I wear size small gloves and I'm always running the smallest backstrap/grip combo on virtually every gun I own. The down/left problem is prevalent for me on Glocks unless I consciously think about squeezing more with my left hand than my right. It's a real mind-warp when shooting a 1911 and a Glock back to back.

And that's the thing -- if I have to think about it consciously, there is a good chance I won't think about it under stress. I have a pretty good front/back grip but with my hands on the small side, so it's hard to get really good wrap-around on the gun. Being a left-handed, left-eye dominant guy that shoots right handed doesn't help much either

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So here's a question for all the super-customized Glock users -- does the grip enhancement/reduction/trigger job reduce or fix this?

I can't call myself a Glock user anymore, mine live in a safe. However, from past experiences:
- Grip reduction barely does anything. From super-reduced Boresight Gen3 to Gen4 that gives you three grip size options, I failed to find a specific size that negates it better than others.
- Trigger lightening does help, just like it does help with any guns.
- My experience of shooting a rental VP9 better than my tuned G19 in slow fire suggests a more favorable set of ergos/trigger position that allows to press trigger back straighter.
- This above makes me wonder if aftermarket triggers that may change vectors of pressure in a beneficial ways but I don't care to find out.
- I am not well initiated into nuances of a proper grip so I don't pay any attention to front strap to backstrap pressure but I did find out that clamping down side to side helps to reduce lateral displacement.

I wonder how many shooters who have this problem have weak grip strength, so they have to hold on to the grip for dear life to get the level of control with which they feel comfortable?

I go in and out of shooting regularly, but two things I do when I "get serious" is regular grip strength training and lots of dry-firing.

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Originally posted by YVK:

quote:

So here's a question for all the super-customized Glock users -- does the grip enhancement/reduction/trigger job reduce or fix this?

I can't call myself a Glock user anymore, mine live in a safe. However, from past experiences:
- Grip reduction barely does anything. From super-reduced Boresight Gen3 to Gen4 that gives you three grip size options, I failed to find a specific size that negates it better than others.
- Trigger lightening does help, just like it does help with any guns.
- My experience of shooting a rental VP9 better than my tuned G19 in slow fire suggests a more favorable set of ergos/trigger position that allows to press trigger back straighter.
- This above makes me wonder if aftermarket triggers that may change vectors of pressure in a beneficial ways but I don't care to find out.
- I am not well initiated into nuances of a proper grip so I don't pay any attention to front strap to backstrap pressure but I did find out that clamping down side to side helps to reduce lateral displacement.

Now that's interesting. Has anyone noticed a change with say a flat trigger or one of those Grip Force adapters?

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Originally posted by dehughes:
I assume this phenomenon doesn't manifest itself with the M&P series, 1.0 or 2.0? Never shot one so I'm genuinely curious.

Platforms I never had problems with:

-Classic Sig P series in SA. DA is another story even with a short trigger and E2 grip.
-HK VP9
-Walther PPQ/PPS
-S&W M&P series
-1911s

I can death/crush grip these platforms all day and use as little or extra trigger finger and they shoot straight. The G19 is an exceptional offering in terms of size, capacity, shootability etc. I just shoot the damn thing left all the time.


One exception to Glock is the Sig P320. I tend to shoot off center to the left with any grip module other than the small. Small compact grip module and I can shoot straight. Very strange.

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Originally posted by jljones: I should be able to compile some data by next weekend, as I have a blue label 17 coming this week.

I look forward to your findings as well. Thank you for all your instructional videos as well as pertinent information.

I own a lot of Glocks, and I'm pretty sure it's not Glock.

I'm just a bad shot.

Interesting. This is helpful info, indeed, as I'd heard of grip pressure being an issue w/Glocks, but never had it clarified. Went to the range a couple days ago w/my Gen 4 G22 and worked on trigger finger vs. grip pressure variations, and indeed saw that it is grip pressure more so than trigger finger that is apparently the cause of shots going left. Yes we can learn to shoot the darn things, then but people can overcome all sorts of things that we'd still not endorse as just normal.

This seems like a design flaw, if it indeed is such a common problem, which anecdotal evidence suggests it is. If I had to grip the wheel of my Corolla just so in order to keep the car from drifting to the left, yet my 4Runner requires no such grip, we'd say something needs to be adjusted with the design of the Corolla, yes? Maybe the frame is bent, maybe the alignment is off?

Yet not so with a pistol design? My 1911 shoots just dandy, regardless. My SIG P-Series pistols (all of them) shoot just dandy, regardless. My other pistols shoot just dandy, regardless.

There's enough to overcome in shooting in general without having to factor in an added variable of a pistol's inherent sensitivity, that I don't see how the Glock platform is so worthwhile it merits selection over a platform without such sensitivities. That is, it's not like learning to shoot a Glock well causes golden rainbow unicorns to appear and all the bad guys to just throw down their arms and give up, whereas shooting my SIGs well just puts the rounds in the X ring w/out the fanfare.

Frankly this is disappointing....I'd always assumed I have a place for Glock, but I'm thinking not anymore. I've spent FAR more time and money focusing on Glock shooting that my other systems, and though I can shoot the Glock well, it's analogous to learning to run with a weight vest on....a good workout, but nothing you particularly enjoy, and done only to serve a greater end. I always enjoy my SIGs (and other platforms more) for a variety of reasons, so I'll stick with them for the avocational fun.

Plus, it's disappointing that so many LE agencies have adopted the Glock given this inherent issue. Why not select a pistol platform that doesn't require training out/around a design flaw? That is, if M&P or P320 or HK or insert model X doesn't have this issue, choose that, let scores come up, let there be less time training, and go from there? I wager it has to do with groupthink and cost first...Glocks are stupid simple and reliable and inexpensive and armorers are like the Maytag repairman. Those points have their merit, no doubt, but Glock does not have an exclusive corner on the market in these areas anymore.