Sigforum K9 handler
| quote: Originally posted by Bulldog7972:
Jerry, are they dumping the 229? I would imagine they are going to the Gen5 19,no?
At this point, no one knows. Right now, they are in the RFP phase with a list of items that they want. The list fits just about any of the major players. They have the chance to piggy back off of the FBI contract for the Glock, or off of the ICE contract for the 320. Or they could go their own way with testing and an RFP and wind up with the 2.0 compact. The smart move would be to replace them with a 9mm 229, but there seems to be little appetite to get anything but striker fired. |
| | |
Member
| "But, none of their instructional staff will deny that the caliber is just harder to shoot. And shooting at lot of it will make you flinchy." If you will call down the lightning, be ready for the thunder.
____________________
|
| | |
addicted to trailing-throttle oversteer
| quote: Originally posted by jljones:
Interesting that another 357 thread popped up so soon.
A few things-
ATK has informed the .gov that they are about to seriously retard 357 production and drop most of their offerings. The last major .gov agency that shoots a ton of it, are now dumping the caliber. Presumably, based upon that statement ATK offerings (Gold Dot, HST) will either cease or be done in extremely limited runs. That means those rounds will be extremely hard to get, if not impossible.
What does that mean? It means that if the demand is there, perhaps Winchester will pick up the slack. And there is always SIGs ammunition plant which is the most likely answer. Will the lack of supply drive up demand, and demand further drive up prices? Can’t answer on that. No rabbit, no magic hat, no crystal ball. But I think if you look at history, and look at 10mm supply and prices around 2002-2010, that is probably your most reasonable answer. The demand for 10mm in the last 7-8 years have risen, and more of it is in circulation and prices have softened.
From the aspect of training “issues” with the gun, I can tell you that right now the FAMS are turning out the best shooters overall that they ever have. But, none of their instructional staff will deny that the caliber is just harder to shoot. And shooting at lot of it will make you flinchy. So saying faster follow up shots is a training issue is true only if the training issue is working twice as hard to accomplish the same thing with other calibers.
Fun topic, though.
One correction: ATK is out of the ammo making picture after they were absorbed by Orbital Sciences Systems, who wanted Alliant Techsystems for their satellite/aerospace business. Orbital could care less about producing small arms munitions. Vista Outdoors was spun off as a separate and wholly independent company and now own and carry on the Federal, Speer, Blazer, Independence and CCI ammo brands, Alliant powder, Hoppe's, M-Pro 7, Bushnell, Redfield and many other gun industry brands. They also own Savage Arms and Stevens, but put both up for sale recently. Fear of the left's boycotting tendencies is the accusation for this move; the company claims other reasons related to upgrade costs due to outdated manufacturing facilities in dire need of overhaul. All I know is Savage can be a PITA to deal with when it comes to ordering guns, and not much better in getting problem customer guns properly fixed without requiring a second return trip. |
| | | Posts: 8983 | Location: Drippin' wet | Registered: April 18, 2010 | 
IP
|
|
Big Stack
| I always hear that .40 is recommended for barrier penetration, especially over 9mm. quote: Originally posted by PD:
Around 2002-2003, I recall 357 SIG being touted as a superior round for its ability to penetrate automotive glass and sheet metal with minimum deflection compared to 9mm, 40, and 45. This was the justification for becoming the new service round. I saw the testing and demonstrations and was impressed.
Does this not matter anymore?
|
| | |
Do---or do not.
There is no try.
| For the most part, it’s cost—-coupled with the fact that not everybody can handle the .357 Sig.
When I was with Dallas PD, I think we had somewhere around 15% of our officers shooting that caliber. Almost three-quarters of those officers were shooting 85% or better during qualifications. Many of us were regularly scoring 93% and up.
But there were a lot of officers in the Department who just couldn’t handle the .357 Sig’s recoil, even though it’s more straight back than the muzzle flip of the .40 S&W.
Yes, the .357 Sig beats the 9, .40, and .45 hands down when it comes to auto windshields. But if it’s too hard to handle, it’s just not the round for you. |
| | |
Member
| quote: Originally posted by PD:
^^
Barrier penetration without altering the targetted path of the bullet. Locally, the 40 disappointed quite a few LE armorers when shots through auto windshields/sheetmetal did not hit the intended target. The 357 SIG testing I saw demonstrated superior ballistics. My question is why this is no longer a factor when selecting a caliber.
More and more departments are limiting, banning or at least discouraging officers from firing at or into motor vehicles. One of the least effective rounds against vehicle sheet metal and glass is 5.56/.223. One of the shootings with 357 Sig was against a vehicle windshield. The round penetrated the windshield and struck the suspect in the shoulder, traveled down his arm into his tricep. The suspect continued to drive through three more towns and when finally stopped he fought and had to be tasered after getting out of the vehicle. As mentioned, pistol rounds aren't great and less so after passing through barriers.
DPR
|
| | |
