quote:

Originally posted by kaschi:
I can't imagine Germany choosing a pistol that is not made in Germany. It would really surprise me if they selected a foreign made one.

The German government had a major role in driving SIG SAUER DE out of business. So, it won't surprise me a bit if their new military sidearm is a foreigner. Especially with this little nugget, "...that the selection will be 100% based on unit price".

Lots of Turkish pistols available these days and Turkey is in NATO (not that that matters)

quote:

Originally posted by car541:
As such, literally anything will do.

Yup.

I don't know - maybe the SP2022 has a shot?

quote:

The new pistol will replace the P8, P8 Combat and P8A1s currently in service. The Heckler & Koch USP was adopted as the P8 in 1994

I thought they had adopted the H&K USP much later than that. I know when I got to qualify for the Bundeswehr's Schützenschnur qualification lanyard/badge while stationed there in 1993, they were still using the Walther P1, derived from the WWII era P38.

The German Army has a lot bigger problems right now than the choice of a service pistol.

^^^ This^^^ And it applies to other countries' militaries. Focusing on selecting a pistol seems to be a diversion from other internal problems/issues (whatever they may be).

quote:

Originally posted by Dawes:
IIRC, Glock was upset because SIG won the award without going through the normal endurance and environmental testing.

Glock was upset because they lost at their own game.

So will the German Army be buying Tisas or Canik?

Does Hi-Point know about the contract?

quote:

Originally posted by CAR:
So will the German Army be buying Tisas or Canik?

Does Hi-Point know about the contract?

“Deploy das yeet cannon!!! Schnell, schnell!!!!”

quote:

Originally posted by CAR:
So will the German Army be buying Tisas or Canik?

Does Hi-Point know about the contract?

Given that Germany and Turkey have a 70+ year relationship ever since the days of the post-war "Guest Workers" in the early 1950's I would not be surprised if they look at Turkish made stuff.

What was all this with their new rifle though? Didn't they pick the Haenel and then it got thrown out and the contract went to H&K?

quote:

Originally posted by jljones:

quote:

Originally posted by Dawes:
IIRC, Glock was upset because SIG won the award without going through the normal endurance and environmental testing.

Glock was upset because they lost at their own game.

Indeed. SIG outGlocked Glock.

quote:

What was all this with their new rifle though? Didn't they pick the Haenel and then it got thrown out and the contract went to H&K?

SIGSauer and Steyr-Rheinmetall withdrew voluntarily because the requirements were not formulated neutrally and Haenel's order was withdrawn because they had infringed patent law. That left only HK to choose from.

In the official tender text for the new pistol, on the EU procurement platform, reference is made to requirements that must be confirmed by the bidders in order for them to be considered at all. The three cheapest bids are then checked to see if they comply with the manufacturer's certifications. The best offer is then selected.

If, for example, the German Technical Guideline (TR) "Pistolen im Kaliber 9 mm x 19" is defined as a requirement, then the possible candidates are reduced to the usual suspects from Europe.It will be a race between the SIGSauer P320, HK SFP9, Beretta APX and possibly Walther, maybe even Glock if the entry criteria fit.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: OTD,

quote:

Originally posted by Dawes:
"The new pistol will replace the P8, P8 Combat and P8A1s currently in service. The Heckler & Koch USP was adopted as the P8 in 1994."

This is a puzzler to me...Honestly, as robust/durable as the HK USP/P8 is, why do the want to replace it? Unless there are too many that would be/are issued a sidearm w/ 'girlie hands' in the German Army, or that having potentially fullfilled it's contractual requirements HK is no longer offering the P8 at a competitive price point, it doesn't make sense to replace what is arguably, the quintessential military sidearm. What am I missing here?

quote:

This is a puzzler to me...Honestly, as robust/durable as the HK USP/P8 is, why do the want to replace it?

Because it is a striker fired, optic world.

I mean I love me some hammer fired DA/SA pistols and especially from HK but I am also a pragmatic realist.

I like my PPQ but carry Sigs now...

quote:

Originally posted by cslinger:

quote:

This is a puzzler to me...Honestly, as robust/durable as the HK USP/P8 is, why do the want to replace it?

Because it is a striker fired, optic world.

I mean I love me some hammer fired DA/SA pistols and especially from HK but I am also a pragmatic realist.

I would also add on that the USP is still an expensive gun for what it is, and it still doesn't have a universal rail unless the German Army gets something special.

Speaking of Walther, James Reeves was also to score an interview with the CEO of Walther on the German KSK and KSM version of the PDP.

quote:

Originally posted by DanH:
I would also add on that the USP is still an expensive gun for what it is, and it still doesn't have a universal rail unless the German Army gets something special.

I was going to mention this too. It is far easier & cheaper to retool a Pic rail to a polymer frame than to a metal one. The USP has been around since 1993. How many USP frame molds have they gone through in 32 years? Is there anyone who owns a USP who prefers the proprietary HK rail to Picatinny? I'm sure anyone who does is someone who doesn't use the rail, which makes it moot in terms of functionality. If it comes down to aesthetics, it's just as easy to make a rail-less USP frame.

quote:

Originally posted by iron chef:

quote:

Originally posted by DanH:
I would also add on that the USP is still an expensive gun for what it is, and it still doesn't have a universal rail unless the German Army gets something special.

I was going to mention this too. It is far easier & cheaper to retool a Pic rail to a polymer frame than to a metal one. The USP has been around since 1993. How many USP frame molds have they gone through in 32 years? Is there anyone who owns a USP who prefers the proprietary HK rail to Picatinny? I'm sure anyone who does is someone who doesn't use the rail, which makes it moot in terms of functionality. If it comes down to aesthetics, it's just as easy to make a rail-less USP frame.

The bigger issue is how many tens of USPs does HK sell in a year, outside of the few contracts it has left in the market?

As far as reliability and durability, there aren't many pistols as bombproof as a USP.