Interesting:



"...the BAAINBw’s (the Federal Office of Bundeswehr Equipment, Information Technology and In-Service Support) announcement notes that the selection will be 100% based on unit price. The three most economical offers will be invited to negotiations.

There are additional restrictions on which vendors can submit bids to the competition. A prospective vendor must have a pistol which has been “introduced in a quantity of over 5000 pistols in the military sector of a NATO state in the last five years or be about to be introduced (award already awarded).” This may for instance make the Walther PDP, which recently won a German Special Forces contract for just over 5,000 pistols (as the P14 / P14K), eligible to compete in the tender.

Most intriguingly, however, is the stipulation that: “There are no plans to carry out comparative testing. Any requirements will be verified at the latest with the integrated verification. However, these must be confirmed in advance by self-declarations and, where necessary, by own test reports.”


https://www.thefirearmblog.com...vice-pistol-44819173

So basically, they're asking for the cheapest crap possible that another NATO military has purchased over 5000 of? Seems like a great way to make a procurement decision .

What pistol are they currently using?

"The new pistol will replace the P8, P8 Combat and P8A1s currently in service. The Heckler & Koch USP was adopted as the P8 in 1994."

PDP would be a great weapon for them. Helsinki Finland PD uses then. Two officers that stopped me when I was flying a drone of the presidential palace were cool and we discussed them in length. They loved them.

The PDP would be most appropriate, given the Bundeswehr's history with the P-38. The PDP is the lineal descendant of the P99, the pistol which revitalized Walther beginning in the mid to late 1990s.

P99 / PPQ / PDP

quote:

Originally posted by parabellum:
The PDP would be most appropriate, given the Bundeswehr's history with the P-38. The PDP is the lineal descendant of the P99, the pistol which revitalized Walther beginning in the mid to late 1990s.

P99 / PPQ / PDP

Have you got a chance to shoot the PDP and the PDP-F yet Para?

They are awesome.

I think it’ll be the PDP. And I think the PDP is a terrific choice. But there still isn’t a single polymer pistol out there with an overall quality equal to the legendary USP.

Curious that the selection will be 100% based on price.

quote:

Originally posted by ThankGod4Sig:
Have you got a chance to shoot the PDP and the PDP-F yet Para?

No, but I have several P99s and several PPQs.

Since the PDP passed their Special Forces testing, which (presumably) had more severe criteria than that for a general service pistol, the Germans know that the basic design is sound and a safe bet. According to the article, they don't plan to do any comparative testing among the guns submitted for this contract, but choose a winner based solely on price. Maybe this is reading too much between the lines, but sounds like it's possible that they already have their preference and they're citing cost as a nudge to get a decent price from Walther.

Of course, Glock/Beretta/HK/Steyr may put up a decent challenge.

G17 perhaps. If adopted by a NATO member in the past five years, it is eligible. Primary test is the unit price; wish they would do full blown tests before adoption, that would be interesting reading. Never handled a PDP, but almost went for a PPQ several years back.

I would put money on the PDP.
-It was adopted by their SOF guys
-It’s home grown
-The testing has been done so to speak

Glock 17 is a solid contender as well but I would bet it will be some flavor of PDP.

Now the wildcard is the VP9A1. Those new VP9s were build very specifically for a contract. I don’t know how many VP’s have been adopted, nor do I know if the A1’s are considered “new pistols” but I have no doubt those A1 VP9’s were built for a very specific reason.

I’ve shot P99s and PPQ’s and they are wonderful shooters. I’ve not shot a PDP but I really like the 3.5 inch -F model.

quote:

German Army searching for new service pistol

Glock 7?

Wonder if SIG would have the cajones to submit the P320/M17...considering that the Germans did momentarily toss Cohen in the slammer for the so-called "war zone violation" debacle in Colombia.

Anyways, I would think that the Glock 17 would be submitted. Walther may have the inside track with the PDP, but I wouldn't count Heckler & Koch out. That said, Lithuania is the only NATO country that uses a version of the VP9, the SFP9 SF. Would they have done an order for 5000+? The actual number is not publicly known info, but the original order has been described in various gun media articles as "significant", and the HK SFP9 SF procurement is intended to replace all previous sidearms that were in Lithuanian service, including the Glock 17, HK USP and Colt 1911. But how many pistols would they actually need for a military that has according to Wikipedia approximately 23,000 active personnel in total?

quote:

Originally posted by egregore:

quote:

German Army searching for new service pistol

Glock 7?

Do you know how much that costs? More than you make in a month!

The traditional european military military pistol requirement has been to procure a weapon capable of allowing their officers to defend themselves from their own men, and occasionally execute a prisoner. Thus the Luger, makarov, tokarev, nagant 1895 etc.

As such, literally anything will do.

quote:

Originally posted by 92fstech:
So basically, they're asking for the cheapest crap possible that another NATO military has purchased over 5000 of? Seems like a great way to make a procurement decision .

What pistol are they currently using?

Honestly, given those criteria, it makes sense to me. Buy the cheapest thing that somebody else has already vetted. If it was just the cheapest comer, that would be concerning, but by essentially piggybacking off of another country's choices, they're saving themselves the work and expense of their own trials.

We effectively made the same purchasing decision in the XM17 program, except it took a bunch of proposals and projects to even get to that point, then hold lengthy trials, and then buy the cheapest option anyway.

IIRC, Glock was upset because SIG won the award without going through the normal endurance and environmental testing.

But does Walther want to keep the business bad enough to underbid, say, Glock?

I can't imagine Germany choosing a pistol that is not made in Germany. It would really surprise me if they selected a foreign made one.