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| Member |
I am not a huge pistol guy; therefore I don't often post in the pistol forum. A recent interaction at the LGS has me curious. What are different folks' opinions on loaded chamber indicators? I should clarify that I mean a deliberate loaded chamber indicator. As in one that is a dedicated mechanism, and not merely an exaggerated extractor with some red paint on it. A couple examples, off the top of my head, are the P320 M18 and Steyr M9. I own a Steyr L9; it is one of my favorite pistols, and I appreciate it's loaded chamber indicator. The L9 is somewhat of an exception, as it is of, IMO, the best design I've encountered. The LCI protrudes from the rear of the slide. It is visible and tactile, even when the gun is holstered. I wouldn't forego the purchase or use of a good pistol, if it lacked an LCI, but I think a proper one is a good feature. | ||
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Shall Not Be Infringed |
It's VERY unlikely I'll EVER own a Pistol w/ a true LCI...I've got my reasons!  I'm not even keen on the 'MASShole' design LCI for a couple of reasons, but the P365 isn't available w/o one and I 'needed' a P365, so there wasn't any getting around it on that pistol. ____________________________________________________________ If Some is Good, and More is Better.....then Too Much, is Just Enough !! Trump 2024....Save America! "May Almighty God bless the United States of America" - parabellum 7/26/20 Live Free or Die! | |||
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Oriental Redneck |
There is no need for it, as far as I'm concerned. In other words, I hate it. And yes, the worst ones are ones with the deliberate mechanism. Q | |||
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Fighting the good fight |
Totally unnecessary. Every gun owner should treat every gun like it's loaded until absolutely sure otherwise, learn how to safety clear their gun, and learn how to verify a round has chambered. It's one of those "safety features" that companies include to appeal to newer/less-informed gun buyers. See also built-in locking mechanisms, grip safeties on non-1911/non-single-action guns, heavy trigger springs "for added safety", etc. It's all safety theater. It makes them "feel" like it's safer, but in reality it adds no practical value. | |||
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Get Off My Lawn |
IMO, a stupid concept. I owned several Ruger MK-IIIs that had LCIs, and promptly took them out and replaced them with "fillers"in the empty slots. The LCI was also just another mechanism in the slide to get gunked up with shit. "I’m not going to read Time Magazine, I’m not going to read Newsweek, I’m not going to read any of these magazines; I mean, because they have too much to lose by printing the truth"- Bob Dylan, 1965 | |||
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| Member |
Interesting replies. I never considered it a "safety feature", but a handy substitute for a press check. I of course agree that we should treat every gun as if it's loaded. But, I also think the LCI has potentially little to do with safety. Do those without LCIs, or those with a distaste for them, perform press checks? If you do, would an indicator not be viewed as a potential "feature"? Like I said earlier, I am not big pistol guy, and therefore seldom venture into pistol discussions. This is very educational for me. | |||
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Baroque Bloke |
The only good LCI that I know of is the one on my Interarms Walther .380 PPK/S. While there’s a round in the chamber a small pin protrudes ~1/8” out the back of the slide. The BG can’t see it, but I can sense it with my thumb without shifting my grip. Rather reassuring to know for certain whether or not a round is in the chamber. Unfortunately, that LCI is about the only thing I like about that gun. My CA P238 is MUCH better, despite its horrible shark fin LCI. Serious about crackers | |||
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| I started with nothing, and still have most of it  |
I don't have a problem with them, but don't currently own any. Probably a good idea for some people who want to own guns but don't consider it to be a major hobby or large part of their life. "While not every Democrat is a horse thief, every horse thief is a Democrat." HORACE GREELEY | |||
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| Oriental Redneck |
Direct visualization is the only surefire way to verify. Any other "feature" is indirect. Q | |||
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| Member |
I reckon that about sums it up. Elimination of any possibility for error. If we're going all the way with it though, I suppose that to see brass is to presume that the brass has a bullet loaded in it, and wasn't some failure to extract/eject (the LCI wouldn't be of any help here either, of course)? I do concede that this is getting into the academic weeds. | |||
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Prepared for the Worst, Providing the Best |
That's my take on it as well. I'm not going to rely on it, I don't need it, and I don't particularly want it on my gun. Confirming that the gun is loaded is an administrative function that takes place when I pick up the gun to put it on. It costs me nothing to press-check or whatever I need to do to make that happen. Once it's in the holster, I know it's loaded and I'm not taking it out to mess with it. If I have to draw it, I'll be looking at the target, or maybe the sights....not the LCI. I don't mind an LCI that's built into an existing part, like the Beretta 92 extractor bump. I don't use it, but it's not hurting anything. I don't want something that adds extra parts, holes, or complexity to the design. It's just something else to collect crud, break, or release soot and gas where I don't want it. I actively avoid any handgun design that incorporates something like that. | |||
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| Member |
When it comes to press-checking (or utilizing a LCI), I wonder if it's a personality thing. Do any of y'all know people who are more OCD-types, and therefore prone to a sort of paranoia that would make them more apt to regularly check the condition of their pistol? | |||
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| Prepared for the Worst, Providing the Best |
Maybe. I'm kinda OCD, but I also realize that repeatedly futzing with it (unnecessary administrative handling) after I've confirmed it's good is more likely to cause harm than help. It reminds me of a line from The Untouchables. They're waiting in the cabin on the Canadian border for the smugglers to come across, and George checks the chamber on his Thompson. Malone (Sean Connery) asks him if he's checked it already, and when George responds in the affirmative, Malone says, "Then leave it alone." | |||
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| Member |
Passive LCI's don't bother me a bit and they do meet the legal requirements for them imposed by some states. There is nothing that will go wrong with that small cutout in the barrel chamber so it's not going to cause a jam. Active LCI's are just another item that can work loose and cause a pistol to jam at the exact instance when you need a pistol that functions well. I will not purchase or own any handgun or rifle with an active LCI. I will also note that I'm old enough to pre-date any requirements for an LCI and out of habit I do a Press Check if there is any doubt about if a chamber is loaded. I'll also note that press checks are quite rare because if I am not carrying a pistol it is ALWAYS unloaded. If I am carrying a pistol it is ALWAYS loaded with one in the chamber. I've stopped counting. | |||
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| Member |
The type of LCIs that protrude a bit to allow you to see/feel the indicator to tell you that there is a loaded shell in the chamber aren't too bad, but I don't think they are really effective and often can't be seen in certain lights. Press checking is the only certain way to check. The most aggravating kind of LCI is the small hole usually located at the top of the barrel. That to me is useless because most of the times the only way to see that small glimmer of brass is to use a light to illuminate the hole. The part that is so aggravating is that it is usually located about 1/4" in front of your red dot and after a few rounds, so much garbage has been spewed out of the hole that it covers the red dot glass and makes it difficult to aim accurately through the haze. | |||
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| Member |
Like many of you, I'd also never trust a loaded chamber indicator. For one thing, on some pistols (as on my Beretta 92 and HK P30S for example), the extractor doesn't protrude out far enough IMO to discern whether it actually IS in the proper outward position indicating a loaded chamber. The red color visual indicator doesn't help either, because on both of the above mentioned guns, a sliver of red is noticeable, even when a round is not in the chamber. If I had to name any pistols that I've owned or handled which are equipped with a loaded chamber indicator, it would have to be the Walther P.38. The signal pin REALLY sticks out the back of the slide to the point that it cannot be overlooked or not felt in the dark. But it's best to live by the adage: ALL guns are ALWAYS loaded ALL the time to prevent unwanted discharges! | |||
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| Member |
I visually check the chamber once I put on the gun. It's loaded and stays that way unless I use it as per its design. | |||
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| His diet consists of black coffee, and sarcasm.  |
It depends on the design. On a CZ75D Compact (PCR) I had, there was a little peg that protruded slightly above the chamber that you could both see and feel. Others, like those found on some Ruger models, have a large "flag" that high-speed photography has shown to bounce up and down with every shot. This does not inspire confidence. Still others, like both my P320 and 365, allow you to see a glint of brass. I look at LCIs differently than some. They should not and should never be used to verify an empty chamber, but that you did load the chamber. I always keep guns loaded, but it could be forgotten after, for example, a dry-fire practice session or cleaning. | |||
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"Member" |
I very much dislike the mechanical ones. I ground away and deactivated the one on my 22/45 to improve reliability. But I'll admit I'm not terribly offended by the peek-a-boo holes, and I've found it handy more than a few times on a few of my guns.  | |||
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| Member |
I will be the odd bird out, I like the feature on both my S.A. XD's Safety, Situational Awareness and proficiency. Neck Ties, Hats and ammo brass, Never ,ever touch'em w/o asking first | |||
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