Thanks Bruce!

A P365 will be my next gun...I don't own a carry gun smaller than my P6. I didn't hold off due to fears of "beta" testing, just waiting for them to be easily available at a good price.

quote:

Originally posted by Grayguns:
In sny event, there is nothing about the P365 which in any way justifies selling off proven-reliable examples on the strength of Internet lore, trolling, exaggerations and outright bullshit alloyed with just enough verifiable truth to prompt SIG to make revisions, and give the SIG badhing malcontents out there more to complain about. For those with real issues among the great minority of owners, SIG has all the answers. My T&E gun from the second werk of production has has been fine.

Thank you! I feel as if I’ve seen this movie before. In the 1990s I owned a pair of .40 S&W Glocks, Gen 2 G22 and G23, which were 100% reliable for the few years that I had them. But the internet (new thing at the time) was all abuzz with “kB!” stories of .40 Glocks blowing up. Unsupported chambers, lead handloads, whatever; there were a few pictures of blown up guns, lots of recycled anecdotes, and some pundits saying that the .40 chambering was just a mistake in that design. I lost my nerve and sold off those perfectly functional pistols. Not long after that it seemed like about half the police in the country were carrying G22s. This time around I’m keeping an eye on internet reviews but making decisions based on what I see with my own eyes. Our two P365s are performing fine and my wife and I each carry one. She carries nothing else; I carry mine whenever my attire dictates something smaller than my usual Glock 31/32/33.

Wait, Bruce you’re saying Sig has only made some of these changes because people complained? I don’t buy that at all.

And the numbers of failures are low? Why are you buying what Sig is telling you? Look around man. They’re full of shit and you diminishing your reputation to push their BS is a shame.

The broken strikers and trigger springs are not an insignificant issue.

You’ve very well educated us on the timing of the 1911 pistol and why you don’t recommend anything under 4.25”. That’s the reason why I carry a 4.25”

So you’re good with the timing of the 365 and the massive primer drag that all of them seem to exhibit? That’s why I sold mine.

The mag on the 365 tappers earlier and allows it fit more rounds in a thin gun. Beyond that what’s so innovative about the 365 that you’re willing to push the company line and make excuses for it?

It’s no different than a g43, shield, xds, g42, shield 45 or any of those other single stack guns from the narrow part of the mag up.

Those guns don’t have massive primer drag that litterally goes all the out to the edge of the primer. They’re not snapping stickerss. They’re not breaking trigger springs.

And then, what really pisses me off is Sig tells all the customers with guns hmthat have the old problems, you’re gun is fine, pay no attention to these changes we’ve made to fix faults. Carry yours and trust your life to it.

Just like they have a gun that will fucking fire when dropped and they call it a vauluntry upgrade? And the knew about because they fixed the military guns and sold us poor schleps the dangerous ones. You’re ok with those business practices? I hope they get sued into oblivion over the people getting shot with faulty 320’s.

You’re reputation was above pushing BS for these turds.

SIG has admitted, though not widely disseminated, the fact that a large number of P365s were assembled with strikers that came from a vendor with poor quality control, and these strikers were predisposed to failure. Most of those pistols were manufactured in April, but a few have been reported with March and May build dates.

There have been multiple reports of strikers failing after firing 500 or more rounds, and one report of a striker failing after 1900 rounds. There is at least one P365 owner who had the striker fail twice, breaking a second time even after the pistol was returned to SIG and the striker was replaced, presumably from a different "batch".

The fact that strikers have failed after substantial round counts makes it difficult for any owner of a P365 to be fully confident that the striker will not fail unless they have shot multiple thousands of rounds through their pistol, and possibly not even then.

There have also been multiple "dead trigger" failures that have been reported at 500 rounds or more, with one occurring after nearly 900 rounds and another reported after over 1500 rounds fired. which begs the question: what exactly constitutes a "proven reliable example" of the P365? One that has successfully fired 3000 rounds without a critical failure?

The fact that SIG knows they sent out a whole bunch of pistols with potentially defective strikers, some of which could fail at any time to render the pistol unusable, and is not issuing a recall of these pistols is absolutely inexcusable, in my opinion. This pistol is designed to be a self-defense, concealed carry piece foremost, not a range toy.

quote:

Originally posted by Grayguns:
I’ve looked into these reported issues in depth. Certainly, there were several issues which came up in the original production pistols, having to do with recoil spring rate tolerances, barrel clearance, and the striker vendor QA problem. Another weird thing came up having to do with the trigger bar spring, which has also been tweaked in production. Within the set of P365’s being shot, the relatively small number of strikers potentially affected by the breakage issue have either failed and been replaced, or been proven sound.

While surely dismaying to those with balky P365’s, the actual incidence of these various issues is much smaller than portrayed on the various online groups and forums. It’s my business to follow these things, and I have talked to my counterparts at SIG.

Yes, there were some issues which SIG has diligently corrected as efficiently as possible. There’s also been crap ammo, poor maintenance, and too many posts by malcontented obsessive-compulsive collector types who refuse to accept the practical limitations of this highly innovative microcompact, which despite it’s size punches reliably above it’s weight when used properly. The tiresome “Any pistol should be able to function reliably with the cheapest crap I can buy no matter how I shoot it” mentality is a real, legit issue here that I am calling out. The P365 is optimised for proper duty loads. It needs to be cleaned and lubricated properly. You need to use proper technique in firing it, mostky defined as hanging on to the damned thing. Those who accept these seemingly unreasonable limitations seem to do just fine.

In sny event, there is nothing about the P365 which in any way justifies selling off proven-reliable examples on the strength of Internet lore, trolling, exaggerations and outright bullshit alloyed with just enough verifiable truth to prompt SIG to make revisions, and give the SIG badhing malcontents out there more to complain about. For those with real issues among the great minority of owners, SIG has all the answers. My T&E gun from the second werk of production has has been fine.

My three cents...

-Bruce

"too many posts by malcontented obsessive-compulsive collector types who refuse to accept the practical limitations of this highly innovative microcompact"

Love it !! 1800 rounds and not a single issue all with my reloads.

quote:

Originally posted by Grayguns:

Yes, there were some issues which SIG has diligently corrected as efficiently as possible. There’s also been crap ammo, poor maintenance, and too many posts by malcontented obsessive-compulsive collector types who refuse to accept the practical limitations of this highly innovative microcompact, which despite it’s size punches reliably above it’s weight when used properly. The tiresome “Any pistol should be able to function reliably with the cheapest crap I can buy no matter how I shoot it” mentality is a real, legit issue here that I am calling out. The P365 is optimised for proper duty loads. It needs to be cleaned and lubricated properly. You need to use proper technique in firing it, mostky defined as hanging on to the damned thing. Those who accept these seemingly unreasonable limitations seem to do just fine.

Bruce,

For those on this forum who have started or participated in a number of threads, with broken firing pins, dead triggers, sights falling out, or action out of battery, which category is applicable? Malcontent, obsessive-compulsive, trolls, sellers of internet lore, bullshitters, or tiresome? Which category are we who own several copies, yet who are reluctant to carry them as the round-count at which these problems continue to be reported, grows? Last report here was 2,000 rounds. At what point might we feel that we've done enough testing on Sig's behalf and may begin to carry with confidence?

I don't know if any pistol ought to function with cheapest crap one can buy, but I haven't seen that posted once here in regard to the P365, either.

Why did Sig come out with a low-power ammunition designed for (and named specifically for) the P365?

I didn't buy just one. Mine are properly maintained. Properly lubricated. Properly held and shot. I'm unwilling to carry the pistol presently, not because I've had malfunctions (I haven't), not because the pistol is finicky about ammunition (it isn't), and not because of "internet lore," trolls, malcontents, or other. In fact, going strictly off posters on this website who have reported not anecdotal information but only their own, direct, first-hand personal experiences, as I've shared my own, my confidence remains reserved. We continue to see the reports regularly.

I do not have confidence that my firing pin will not fail. Not yet. I do not have confidence that I will have a functioning trigger when it's critical to have one that works. More shooting is required, and for that reason I bought the pistol in the first place. If it works out, great, I'm looking forward to it. Given that the early failures are showing up as high as 2,000 round counts, however, I have misgivings as to when that confidence might be justified. Again, I'm not interested in anecdotes, but those who are actually reporting these things, as it's happened to them.

How many rounds are through your T&E gun?

I have unfired P365's in my safe. My daughter wants one. At this point, I am not comfortable giving something to her that I'm not comfortable with, and the problem is that any other P365 I pull out that is unfired, will need a few thousand rounds through it before it's been "proven sound."

The damn thing should have been sound before it was released, and it shouldn't take owning and pouring hundreds of dollars in ammunition through the pistol to prove anything. Therein lies the problem, and calling those of us who own the pistol a malcontent, bullshit artist, troll, etc, doesn't address the fact at all. A Sig representative has already been here several times to say that we shouldn't believe what we're seeing. Might you be saying the same thing?

quote:

Why did Sig come out with a low-power ammunition designed for (and named specifically for) the P365?

If is far from "low powered" Have you shot any?
The carry round 365 ammo comes out of a P365 at 1080 FPS. Is that LOWW? The FMJ is very close to that number.

These "high numbers" quoted.. how high? Seems mostly I'm hearing stories of someone's else's issues. With the factory putting out about three thousand a day, what's the actual failure rate. I'm been using three from the early production to that of two months ago and no issues

quote:

"too many posts by malcontented obsessive-compulsive collector types who refuse to accept the practical limitations of this highly innovative microcompact"

Love it !! 1800 rounds and not a single issue all with my reloads.

you love that? I think it's ridiculous that Sig and their proxies say a gun of this size "limitations" but other manufacturers seem to create reliable guns in this size without issue.

Sounds like an excuse to be a subperfomer.

quote:

Originally posted by rscalzo:
If is far from "low powered" Have you shot any?
The carry round 365 ammo comes out of a P365 at 1080 FPS. Is that LOWW? The FMJ is very close to that number.

Yes, and yes.
Sig advertises the 115gn "365" 9mm ammunition at 1080 fps, and 282 ft-lbs of energy, which is quite low. By comparison, Sig's V-crown elite 115 grain moves along at 1185 fps, with 359 ft. lbs of energy. Their 124 gn offering is 1165 fps and 374 ft-lbs. It's a reduced recoil, low-energy, low speed round. Perhaps just a sales tactic to those who'd buy other "low recoil" offerings, but it's named specifically for the P365, it seems.

Or it could simply be that the 365 is named, as the advertising implies, for a pistol to be carried 365 days a year, and the ammunition the same...apparently dedicated to this pistol.

https://www.sigsauer.com/store...crown-365-jhp-1.html

https://www.sigsauer.com/store...ite-v-crown-jhp.html

https://www.sigsauer.com/store...ite-v-crown-jhp.html

quote:

Originally posted by rscalzo:
These "high numbers" quoted.. how high? Seems mostly I'm hearing stories of someone's else's issues. With the factory putting out about three thousand a day, what's the actual failure rate. I'm been using three from the early production to that of two months ago and no issues

I don't know what stories you're hearing, but everything here seems to be posted first-hand, by those experiencing the issues, and the most recent one was a pistol with 2,000 rounds through it. No issues in the last two months? We've got multiple threads open, by the posters delivering first hand accounts, all in the past couple of months. Why do apologists keep telling us that we're not really seeing what we're seeing? Do the posts not exist, or are we some of the tiresome, malcontented bullshitters just stirring the pot, as insinuated recently by a respected member of the community?

quote:

Originally posted by sns3guppy:

quote:

Originally posted by rscalzo:
If is far from "low powered" Have you shot any?
The carry round 365 ammo comes out of a P365 at 1080 FPS. Is that LOWW? The FMJ is very close to that number.

Yes, and yes.
Sig advertises the 115gn "365" 9mm ammunition at 1080 fps, and 282 ft-lbs of energy, which is quite low. By comparison, Sig's V-crown elite 115 grain moves along at 1185 fps, with 359 ft. lbs of energy. Their 124 gn offering is 1165 fps and 374 ft-lbs. It's a reduced recoil, low-energy, low speed round. Perhaps just a sales tactic to those who'd buy other "low recoil" offerings, but it's named specifically for the P365, it seems.

Or it could simply be that the 365 is named, as the advertising implies, for a pistol to be carried 365 days a year, and the ammunition the same...apparently dedicated to this pistol.

https://www.sigsauer.com/store...crown-365-jhp-1.html

https://www.sigsauer.com/store...ite-v-crown-jhp.html

https://www.sigsauer.com/store...ite-v-crown-jhp.html

quote:

Originally posted by rscalzo:
These "high numbers" quoted.. how high? Seems mostly I'm hearing stories of someone's else's issues. With the factory putting out about three thousand a day, what's the actual failure rate. I'm been using three from the early production to that of two months ago and no issues

I don't know what stories you're hearing, but everything here seems to be posted first-hand, by those experiencing the issues, and the most recent one was a pistol with 2,000 rounds through it. No issues in the last two months? We've got multiple threads open, by the posters delivering first hand accounts, all in the past couple of months. Why do apologists keep telling us that we're not really seeing what we're seeing? Do the posts not exist, or are we some of the tiresome, malcontented bullshitters just stirring the pot, as insinuated recently by a respected member of the community?

Do we know if they are testing with the same barrel lengths?

cc

Personally, I don't plan to do anything different as a break in on mine. It will get 200 rounds of FMJ and then 50 Gold Dots. If nothing bad happens, it's going into service. One of my Glocks could do the same thing at some unspecified round count.

Yes, it may break at round 251 or 2501, but the chances that it will occur during a gunfight (already slim odds) and have any impact on the outcome are ridiculously small. I'll take my chances.

quote:

Originally posted by MNSIG:
Personally, I don't plan to do anything different as a break in on mine. It will get 200 rounds of FMJ and then 50 Gold Dots. If nothing bad happens, it's going into service. One of my Glocks could do the same thing at some unspecified round count.

Yes, it may break at round 251 or 2501, but the chances that it will occur during a gunfight (already slim odds) and have any impact on the outcome are ridiculously small. I'll take my chances.

I feel the same way and have one on order.

Bruce - Is there any plans for GGI to offer a P365 upgrade package that will address all of the aformentioned variables with replacement parts? Guessing that we will not receive this option from SIG in the form of an “upgrade” or recall....

I ask because I own two P365’s that went from being my wife and my primary carry pistols back to being range only pistols...Thanks. Mark

I took my 365 out yesterday for its first range trip. Mine has 5/24/2018 build date. I could not get the slide to lock back on an empty mag no matter how I held the pistol. I put 100 rounds of Winchester 124gr NATO ammo through it and I had 1 light primer strike. I did not have excessive primer drags marks, but the light strike is concerning. I've never had a light strike with this ammo or any ammo in my 320RX or my 320X5.

quote:

Originally posted by ccmdfd:

Do we know if they are testing with the same barrel lengths?

cc

We do not.

I provided you links direct to the manufacturer site. View for yourself.

quote:

Originally posted by isthatasiginyourpocket:
I took my 365 out yesterday for its first range trip. Mine has 5/24/2018 build date. I could not get the slide to lock back on an empty mag no matter how I held the pistol. I put 100 rounds of Winchester 124gr NATO ammo through it and I had 1 light primer strike. I did not have excessive primer drags marks, but the light strike is concerning. I've never had a light strike with this ammo or any ammo in my 320RX or my 320X5.

I fired my 365 for the first time last week and had a number of light primer strikes with this same ammo but determined that it was due to the slide being approximately 1mm out of battery each time. Any chance the same thing was happening to you?

quote:

Originally posted by moose201:

I fired my 365 for the first time last week and had a number of light primer strikes with this same ammo but determined that it was due to the slide being approximately 1mm out of battery each time. Any chance the same thing was happening to you?

This cannot have happened to you. We're assured that these things only happen to misfits and malcontents, always a third party somewhere, never first hand accounts, and assuredly, none have happened in the last two months. Say it isn't so.

If you're getting primer strikes or marks on the primer when the weapon is out of battery, you have a dangerous condition and it needs to be addressed before you have one go off out of battery. When that happens, the apologists may try to tell you that it didn't really occur, or that you've used "crap" ammunition, or failed to grease or maintain your pistol, but it won't put your hand or your face back together.

Your trigger shouldn't trip or release your striker while out of battery. That's not an acceptable condition. Simply because you got light strikes and not a discharge, don't accept it. The light strike shouldn't be happening, and indicates that the striker was released. It's not a blow back pistol.

quote:

Originally posted by sns3guppy:

quote:

Originally posted by moose201:

I fired my 365 for the first time last week and had a number of light primer strikes with this same ammo but determined that it was due to the slide being approximately 1mm out of battery each time. Any chance the same thing was happening to you?

This cannot have happened to you. We're assured that these things only happen to misfits and malcontents, always a third party somewhere, never first hand accounts, and assuredly, none have happened in the last two months. Say it isn't so.

If you're getting primer strikes or marks on the primer when the weapon is out of battery, you have a dangerous condition and it needs to be addressed before you have one go off out of battery. When that happens, the apologists may try to tell you that it didn't really occur, or that you've used "crap" ammunition, or failed to grease or maintain your pistol, but it won't put your hand or your face back together.

Your trigger shouldn't trip or release your striker while out of battery. That's not an acceptable condition. Simply because you got light strikes and not a discharge, don't accept it. The light strike shouldn't be happening, and indicates that the striker was released. It's not a blow back pistol.

Copy that. Once I realized what was happening, I noticed that a light push on the slide would return the pistol to battery (almost like the forward assist on an AR). I stripped, cleaned and lubricated the gun and intend to make one more range trip with different ammo before I call Sigarms. Now that I know what is happening, I certainly won't be pressing the trigger if the slide is retracted in any way.

quote:

Originally posted by moose201:

quote:

Originally posted by isthatasiginyourpocket:
I took my 365 out yesterday for its first range trip. Mine has 5/24/2018 build date. I could not get the slide to lock back on an empty mag no matter how I held the pistol. I put 100 rounds of Winchester 124gr NATO ammo through it and I had 1 light primer strike. I did not have excessive primer drags marks, but the light strike is concerning. I've never had a light strike with this ammo or any ammo in my 320RX or my 320X5.

I fired my 365 for the first time last week and had a number of light primer strikes with this same ammo but determined that it was due to the slide being approximately 1mm out of battery each time. Any chance the same thing was happening to you?

I didn't notice if it was out of battery, but I'll pay attention to it during the next range visit.

I'm not going to get into a pissing match whether or not this pistol is reliable. I thought I'd add my experience to help give an overall picture of the performance of the 365.

I would like to add I'm very disappointed by some of the responses we've received from very respected members and industry vendors regarding the 365.

quote:

Originally posted by dwd1985: My P365 resides with Sig at the moment as they fix the problem.

What is the factory "fix"? Do they just hook the spring back in the FCU? Put a new longer/shorter spring in its place?