quote:

Originally posted by parabellum:
Well, my sights are metal (neither plastic nor glass), which keeps the vapors at bay.

I had the front sight of an M&P 45 go flying off while shooting once.

If it ain't properly attached, it doesn't matter what it's made of.

I'm just wondering how your cut compares to what a factory cut setup would be. Assuming that's what Safariland based their holster off of.

There is no factory acro cut. so its not a factor in the discussion.

Doe the holster have the original barrel indexing plug installed? Was the holster intended for your slide length? I know you mentioned the possibility that it was a reholster without a light and I think you're onto something there, but generally the barrel indexing plug would keep the gun from falling too low in the holster. Generally, the holster bodies are all the same and the plug is intended to match the slide length so a compact slide going in a full size holster would likely not catch the indexing plug.

The holster is relatively new (received last January) and has had little use, only a few range sessions. It has the indexing plug and the slide is the full size length that the holster is designed for.

You do have a point, though, about whether the plug would have prevented the pistol from going in far enough for the sight to contact the projection that I believe caused the damage. Something to try to check, so thanks for that idea.

I got around to actually checking the fit of the pistol in the holster rather than just assuming. Not having the sight mounted made it easy to see what happens when it’s holstered.

When the (dummy) light is mounted, the pistol is positioned so that it goes straight down and the indexing post of the holster enters the muzzle of the barrel. In that position there is evidently enough clearance between the sight and the projection pictured above. Without the light, however, it’s possible for the pistol to be rotated to the rear to the point that the front of the slide bypasses the indexing post entirely. That allows the gun to be inserted farther into the holster, and from what I can see, that would make it possible for the sight window to contact the projection. If the sight is also mounted that might limit the degree of rotation, but evidently not enough to prevent the problem.

Why the damage to the window occurred on only one corner isn’t clear, but I suspect it was because the pistol slide was also canted to one side as well as being rotated to the rear.

So, boys and girls, remember that holsters are designed to work with specific guns and accessories. Using them in unintended ways can cause problems, including things that are worse than a broken sight.

That is surprising for an Acro. I thought they would be tougher than that against the plastic.

As much as I have tried to get used to a red dot, I have found they are not for me and have spent good money on buying different types. I understand they are an asset for some but I can't get used to the function/sight picture. My son will make out in my trials, as I give them to him. On a rifle, it is a different story.

A few weeks old, but an update.

quote:

Originally posted by 220-9er:
Maybe put a piece of modeling clay on the Aimpointwhen it comes back and carefully holster the gun to see how close those parts are.

That was an excellent idea, and here’s the result after getting a replacement* ACRO from Aimpoint. The bit of yellow modeling clay shows the imprints of the two “projections” inside the Safariland holster when the P320 with optic and Surefire light was inserted far enough into the holster to lock in place.





What that test demonstrated was that the projections inside the holster contact the front lens of the sight even with a light mounted properly. And when I inserted the pistol with attachments far enough into the holster to lock in place, I noticed that the slide was pushed back 1/16 inch or more, showing that the projections were not just touching the sight, but contacting it with significant force.

It’s still possible that the original sight was broken only because it and the slide were inserted into the holster without the light. I used the proper setup for a long series of drills before the problem occurred, and I’m inclined to believe that that was the cause. But because I’m not comfortable with two little plastic posts pushing against the front lens of the sight every time I holster the pistol, I’ve discontinued using the holster.

In addition to getting service above and beyond what could be expected from Aimpoint, I’ve had several back and forth emails with Safariland. Although I was originally willing to accept responsibility for the matter when I thought the sight would contact the internal structures only if the light wasn’t attached, now I consider the holster design to be flawed. Perhaps the designers thought nothing bad could happen with that design, but ….

We’ll see how all that develops.

* I’m guessing that the P-1 sight I sent to Aimpoint could not be repaired because they sent me a current P-2 in replacement.

Edited: Spelling!

This message has been edited. Last edited by: sigfreund,

quote:

Originally posted by sigfreund:
Although I was originally willing to accept responsibility for the matter when I thought the sight would contact the internal structures only if the light wasn’t attached, now I consider the holster design to be flawed. Perhaps the designers though nothing bad could happen with that design, but ….

6390RDS?

I bought one of those PA State Police model Walther PDP Pro that is factory cut for the Acro. I have to say I love shooting the Acro. I don’t know if I’m sold on closed emitter being the end all but I will say the sight itself is fantastic. Love the controls and to my eyes it is a very sharp dot. One of my favorite dots.

That holster seems totally out of reasonable spec. That modeling clay was a great idea. There is no way I would keep using that holster unless I modded it. Which you shouldn’t have to do.

Clearly, the ACRO is to big/protrudes too far forward on the slide to fit in the Safariland RDO holster. Did Safariland specify that it would fit that model of optic in their manual? I'm honestly not sure how they could account for all the aftermarket milling options, especially for a giant beast like the ACRO. I know there's ample clearance in my 6360RDO for a factory cut Romeo1Pro and aftermarket cuts with an RMR and even the huge 507 Comp.

That is some truly fantastic C/S on the part of Aimpoint, though, and you came out ahead with the free upgrade to a P2.

All I know is the ALS mechanism on the 6354RDS I just bought is different and has a flat shelf instead of those plastic prongs. I specified an ACRO in the order page to accommodate everything I could conceivable holster in it, too, so something has either changed, or that holster wasn’t meant for an ACRO in the first place.

Sigfreund, have you been in contact with Safariland about this?

^ interesting. Mine definitely has the nubs. I wonder if the flat shelf is a recent design update to accommodate a wider variety of optics?

I’ve had several email requests from Safariland for photos. I’ve sent them all the ones posted here as well as a few others. Reportedly the question is being evaluated by "engineering" there.

The Safariland site’s description of the model holster I have (6354RDSO) is specifically for these optics: “Large Enclosed Emitters Similar to Aimpoint ACRO.”

It’s possible that the position of the sight due to the milling put it farther forward than the holster was intended for, but it would not have been possible to move the sight position much farther to the rear. And SIG doesn’t offer any factory milled slides for the ACRO sights, so any positioning on a slide would be an aftermarket result that the holster design would have to accommodate.

Although it’s pure speculation now, I am beginning to believe that the two projections/prongs are intended to contact the sight and allow the internal holster mechanism to be pushed into position to lock the pistol into the holster. I haven’t quite figured out how that’s accomplished, but maybe it was assumed that the projections would contact only the outer housing of the ACRO, and not its front lens, or if they do, it wouldn’t hurt anything.

Well, when I initially replied, I was not at home. I just got home and had a closer look at mine vs the photos and I see where they’re different, and where they’re similar. I also apparently didn’t go through with my intent to order the one for the ACRO and ordered the one for the RMR and a whole litany of other optics. Regardless, you can see how mine wouldn’t punch a hole in an ACRO lens, but at that, it may not even fit one. I dunno, I guess it depends maybe on that relief channel in the center. My ALS mechanism has a V shape funnel thing going on, which is pretty different from what I’m seeing in the pics. There’s at least one or two guys in my shooting group who have Glocks with ACROs and Steiner MPS I can ask to try out next time to confirm.

quote:

Originally posted by sigfreund:
Although it’s pure speculation now, I am beginning to believe that the two projections/prongs are intended to contact the sight and allow the internal holster mechanism to be pushed into position to lock the pistol into the holster. I haven’t quite figured out how that’s accomplished, but maybe it was assumed that the projections would contact only the outer housing of the ACRO, and not its front lens, or if they do, it wouldn’t hurt anything.

I'm doubtful of that. Mind you, I haven't had any of my pistols milled for an optic yet, so my experience so far is holstering a bare pistol with an unobstructed view of what's going on for that process, and it's my obervation that the pistol's slide pushes the ALS mechanism up slightly to allow it to seat, whereupon the ALS mechanism has a little protrusion that locks into the ejection port recess. You wouldn't have to push it into place, being a sprung mechanism, and I would think certainly not using the glass of the optic.

Regardless, here’s my 6354RDSO sans teeth:

Thanks for the picture. Depending on what Safariland says, I may reference your holster.

quote:

Originally posted by sigfreund:
Although it’s pure speculation now, I am beginning to believe that the two projections/prongs are intended to contact the sight and allow the internal holster mechanism to be pushed into position to lock the pistol into the holster. I haven’t quite figured out how that’s accomplished, but maybe it was assumed that the projections would contact only the outer housing of the ACRO, and not its front lens, or if they do, it wouldn’t hurt anything.

The optic has nothing to do with the function of the ALS system.

Handguns without optics fit and lock as normal in a RDS-compatible ALS holster.

The ALS mechanism interfaces with the top of the slide and the side of the chamber/ejection port area. The optic typically doesn't contact the ALS mechanism (neither the optic's housing nor the glass).

Despite Safariland's attempt at creating a "one size fits most" holster solution for the vast number of potential combinations of various optics and factory/custom optic cuts out there, that holster as currently designed apparently doesn't accommodate your exact combination of slightly forward-set custom optic cut plus a large/bulky Acro optic. At least without necessitating cramming the gun into the holster, putting the optic glass in contact with the ALS mechanism sufficient to cause damage and even partially retract the slide when holstered as you indicated.

quote:

Originally posted by sigfreund:
Thanks for the picture. Depending on what Safariland says, I may reference your holster.

If it helps in any way, please do.

quote:

Originally posted by RogueJSK:
Handguns without optics fit and lock as normal in a RDS-compatible ALS holster.

With sort-of credit to Admiral Grace Hopper, “One accurate test is worth a thousand half-assed guesses.” Thank you for the indirect reminder.

Yes, I actually tried a pistol without the optic in the holster in question and it locked in place just as it should. Now I have no idea what the two projections/nubs/prongs are intended to accomplish.
I asked Safariland about just cutting the projections off, so we’ll see what they say.