quote:

Originally posted by bionic218:

quote:

Originally posted by jljones:
^^^^^^
Man, ain't it great that we have so many good choices these days?

Indeed. Market is virtually flooded with outstanding, low-cost, quality arms.

My local dealer has more 'good deals' now than he has had at any time in recent memory.

Fortunately for me, I have low enough funding to repress the overwhelming desire to buy the shit out of everything!

M&P 2.0, G5 Glock, CZ P10C, Beretta APX, and probably more that I'm forgetting - so many good choices.

ETA: HK is the one I was forgetting. With their VP series, they're finally a player worthy of consideration with the above guns. Prior to the VP series, I considered them a luxury line more than a serious contender (due to high prices, not arguing their quality).

I have all of those, the G5 Glocks, two M&P 2.0's, two CZ P10C's, the Beretta APX, etc, all excellent guns. I have HK too, no VP as I think they are cheaply made compared to my HK USP or P30 series. That's just me though. Lots of options.

I agree the amount of choice is fantastic. I think I didnt like the Gen 5s magwell relief cut in the front as my pinky fell right across it. I could be wrong but it felt like it would just dig in as I shot. I also wasnt huge on the flared sides to the magwell though of course some may love these features.

The trigger on the Gen 5 was actually pretty good and noticeably better than the Gen 4 I chose but I can swap a trigger and I liked everything else about the 4.

I dont have pics but I took it out to the range to qualify today and shot a 297 straight out of the box with no practice and no Glock time for about 10-15 years. Body shots were in a dinner plate and head shots where a pack of clover leafs except the off hand shots.

Couldn't be happier.

I currently have two M&P 2.0 compacts (one with a Apex duty/carry trigger kit installed in it) and two Gen5 G19's. In the past I've also had a Sig P-320c, VP9, CZ P-10c, PPQ and many other pistols, striker fired and DA/SA. *Overall*, I prefer G19 sized 9mm pistols the most, and for me the Gen5 G19 *just* edges out my M&P 2.0 compact pistols, even though I shoot the Apex triggered 2.0 compact pistol a little better.

*For me*, the factory triggers on my Gen 5 G19's, with some shooting, dry firing and some light polishing are pretty decent carry triggers and nothing really needs added to them. That being said, if I could not have a Gen 5 G19, *I* would choose the M&P 2.0 compact over the Gen 4 G19. IMHO, with the reliability and accuracy being *pretty much* equal among the top 9mm compact pistols, personal preferences like ergos, grip texture, trigger feel, etc. are the deciding factors for many in their pistol choice.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Biggy, November 17, 2017 10:39 PM

quote:

Originally posted by jljones:
I love 2.0 FS. I really like the Gen5 G17. I have only handled the 2.0 compact. I have quite a bit of time on the Gen5 19. My opinion is pretty simple. From shooting the Gen5 17, 19 and 2.0 full size head to head, I have found that my 2.0 has a bit more felt recoil than the 19. That is what I see in my hand by doing sight tracking drills. Reports from folks I trust say that the 2.0 compact is over sprung. From a speed shooting perspective, I'd say that makes the 19 a no brainer.

At some point, I'll pick up a 2.0 compact. But, for today, I'm sticking with the Gen5 17 and 19, and the 2.0 FS.

YMMV.

Interesting. If I'm reading you correctly here, the 2.0 full size has a bit more felt recoil than the Gen 5 Glock 19, but does the 19 then also shoot flatter for you than the 2.0?

How flat a pistol shoots (muzzle flip and recoil) can be pretty subjective and vary from person to person. The person in this Vid review thought the M&P 2.0 compact pistol was a little flatter shooting than the P-10c or the Gen 5 G19, but another person might feel differenly about it. To know for sure, rent and shoot both of them if you can

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NffoYs7PBMc&t=406s

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Biggy, November 18, 2017 12:29 AM

quote:

Originally posted by dehughes:

quote:

Originally posted by jljones:
I love 2.0 FS. I really like the Gen5 G17. I have only handled the 2.0 compact. I have quite a bit of time on the Gen5 19. My opinion is pretty simple. From shooting the Gen5 17, 19 and 2.0 full size head to head, I have found that my 2.0 has a bit more felt recoil than the 19. That is what I see in my hand by doing sight tracking drills. Reports from folks I trust say that the 2.0 compact is over sprung. From a speed shooting perspective, I'd say that makes the 19 a no brainer.

At some point, I'll pick up a 2.0 compact. But, for today, I'm sticking with the Gen5 17 and 19, and the 2.0 FS.

YMMV.

Interesting. If I'm reading you correctly here, the 2.0 full size has a bit more felt recoil than the Gen 5 Glock 19, but does the 19 then also shoot flatter for you than the 2.0?

Yep that’s what I found. Shoot me an email and I ll give you the specific testing procedure I use.

quote:

Originally posted by jljones:

quote:

Originally posted by dehughes:

quote:

Originally posted by jljones:
I love 2.0 FS. I really like the Gen5 G17. I have only handled the 2.0 compact. I have quite a bit of time on the Gen5 19. My opinion is pretty simple. From shooting the Gen5 17, 19 and 2.0 full size head to head, I have found that my 2.0 has a bit more felt recoil than the 19. That is what I see in my hand by doing sight tracking drills. Reports from folks I trust say that the 2.0 compact is over sprung. From a speed shooting perspective, I'd say that makes the 19 a no brainer.

At some point, I'll pick up a 2.0 compact. But, for today, I'm sticking with the Gen5 17 and 19, and the 2.0 FS.

YMMV.

Interesting. If I'm reading you correctly here, the 2.0 full size has a bit more felt recoil than the Gen 5 Glock 19, but does the 19 then also shoot flatter for you than the 2.0?

Yep that’s what I found. Shoot me an email and I ll give you the specific testing procedure I use.

My email is in my profile, could you send it to me too please. I’m curious because I shot the two side by side and had a really hard time deciding which one had less felt recoil and was faster on target.

I was splitting hairs for sure, but in the end, I felt like the M&P had a sliiiiightly less recoil and was back on target just a hair faster. I debated back and forth...was it the placebo effect because I wanted to like the M&P (because I like the grip better than the Glock)? Was it real (perhaps maybe because it did fit me better)? Was it basically a tie?

I’d give it a go again with a more scientific procedure for sure.

To your point earlier, it sure is awesome that we have the choices we do! If you can’t find a gun that’s near perfect for you today, there’s something g wrong with ya. The two guns are so close for me, that I really think it’s bascially picking fly poop out of pepper.

Here is yet another Glock Gen 5 torture test :

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZR0Ss3yVV5I&t=14s


My takeaway from the above vid torture test is : The next time you find yourself in a muddy , sandy or wet trench on porkchop hill or anywhere else that has the same conditions, **have a mag in your pistol** and try not to drop whichever pistol you have with you.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Biggy, November 18, 2017 12:07 PM

deleted double post

quote:

Originally posted by eweiss:

Like the song said, "If you want to be happy for the rest of your life, never make a pretty woman your wife. Go for my personal point of view, get an ugly girl to marry you."

Luvs my ugly Glock.

quote:

Originally posted by esdunbar:
For me, the grip of the Glock just doesn't feel good. It's not the angle that bothers me, it's the hump at the bottom of the back strap and the thickness.

I have known a few people who changed their frame to the Lone Wolf TimberWolf frame to get away from the back strap hump and the grip angle.

Here is 30 rounds from 30 feet out of each pistol. The left is my Glock 19 and the right is my new M2.0.
Not bad for the S&W considering this was only my second outing with it and I have about 5000 rounds through the Glock + trigger mods.

If you are getting an M&P 2.0 full size duty gun then I would say stick with the same system for your off duty carry. The M&P 2.0 is a Superb pistol! I have the full size and compact 2.0's and love them.

As for the Glock Gen 5. I really wish that they didn't put that half moon cut on the front strap. I was really looking forward to the removal of the finger grooves and then Glock went and ruined it. Maybe they will finally get it right on the Gen 6. LOL :P

Of course its not needed, but for those who want the most accurate barrel available for their 2.0 compact, Apex has just released their new semi drop in and gunsmith fit barrel for it. According to them an Apex properly fitted gunsmith fit barrel is capable of shooting as small as a 1-inch grouping at 25 yards. The barrel chambers are all within SAMMI spec dimensions. Apex Tactical has also just came out with a jig that you can use to fit your own barrel.


https://apextactical.us13.list...0e32d21&e=742562bfb9


https://store.apextactical.com...ducts/Details/192716

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Biggy, November 21, 2017 06:01 PM

Deleted double post

quote:

Originally posted by Biggy:
For those who want the most accurate barrel available for their 2.0 compact, Apex has just released their new semi drop in and gunsmith fit barrel for it. According to them an Apex properly fitted gunsmith fit barrel is capable of shooting as small as a 1-inch grouping at 25 yards. Apex Tactical has also just came out with a jig that you can use to fit your own barrel.


https://apextactical.us13.list...0e32d21&e=742562bfb9


https://store.apextactical.com...ducts/Details/192716

Oh geez...that's dangerous. My kind of rabbit hole.

quote:

Originally posted by esdunbar:


My email is in my profile, could you send it to me too please.

I'll get it out to you and Hughes tomorrow.

Thanks fellas!

quote:

Originally posted by Sparkyk:

quote:

Originally posted by esdunbar:
For me, the grip of the Glock just doesn't feel good. It's not the angle that bothers me, it's the hump at the bottom of the back strap and the thickness.

I have known a few people who changed their frame to the Lone Wolf TimberWolf frame to get away from the back strap hump and the grip angle.

There is also a method for reducing the hump and grip angle on a Glock. Search youtube for glock grip reduction candle method,
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lpA_6m7WeX4

quote:

Originally posted by gunguru123:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by bionic218:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by jljones:
^^^^^^
I have HK too, no VP as I think they are cheaply made compared to my HK USP or P30 series. That's just me though. Lots of options.

That seems to be a fairly common comment that I struggle to understand. I have USPs, P2000s, a VP9, Walthers, Glocks, etc. and I don’t find the VP9 any different than any other striker based firearm. If we are discussing the genealogy of the USP series OK but I struggle to see how the VP differs from its peers. Maybe I’m missing something as I m not an expert but I dont’ see it personally from what I own. FWIW, I prefer the PPQ M2.

Edited to add that I saw you bought the G4 Glock 19. While I prefer my Walthers I like my Glock 19 G3. Excellent choice going with the G4 G19.

Thanks I'm pretty smitten with it currently though we'll see how I feel when the new wears off.

I tried the Gen 5 and the pinky cut wasnt for me plus I'm weird and actually like the finger groves. In comparison to the M&P 2.0 compact I'll say that while they are dimensionally the same the proportions seem to be laid out slightly differently. The G19 Gen4 worked the best for me and I'm already seeing the benefit of the aftermarket parts availability.

I tried the PPQ M1 and while it was stupid accurate and 100% reliable I doubled with it every now and then which might just be me needing more time with the trigger. Shame as I liked the paddles.

I spent some time with a VP9T and couldnt get it to run right suppressed. I had weird malfunctions in the mag with rounds diving inward. Picture a double or triple feed but in the mag. It also spit like a furious camel. It was great unsuppressed though but thats not what I got it for so it had to go. Others mileage may vary though.

As stated, I think we are all fortunate to have so many options.