I've heard this now twice recently. Reading Flork's post, grease is recommended for frame rails for alloy frames.

How about all steel? I like Slide Glide, use it on all my guns including the "tight" ones. and supposedly it "suspends" any particles in such a way that they do not become abrasive. But, heck, I don't know.

Recently a gunsmith who does work for me took me to task for using grease and said when the gun gets dirty the grease turns into lapping compound. I read the same thing on the 1911forum in the Dan Wesson section by a DW rep and they do not recommend grease, rather FP-10 or Militec 1 only.

DW also recommends Kroil for cleaning. Apparently most CLPs are not good for the Duty Treat finish they are now using. They say oil is all you need and a little elbow grease.

Anyone have any insight?

This message has been edited. Last edited by: SIGWolf,

I used to use a substance containing graphite as a sort of lapping compound. When applied to the rails of a rough 1911, and the slide is worked about a bazillion times, it gets much smoother.

I have a vbob with hard hat. Same thing as dw duty treat. I use grease on the rails or flat bits, oil on turny bits. I use clp, and hoppes. I have well over 10k through it. My dw guardian has the duty treat on it(slide) and has been abused the same way.


I did have on heritage that galled and seized up. I used bore bright after getting it apart with rubber mallet . 4 hours later the slide worked beautifully.


Both my valor and guardian were very tight guns, neither galled up. My razorback and heritage both did. Even after a thorough cleaning and re oiling with their little bottle of protective/ break in oil. The heritage was first and did it 5 rounds in at the range. The razor back did it while i was just manually working the slide back and forth on the frame after the initial cleaning and recoiling.

Other than the 715, the razor back was my last dw.

Edit, Since then I have used grease on my guns.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: DSgrouse,

Grease is a "lapping compound" when it gets dirty?

On "tight guns?"

I could go on for hours about the superstitions ingrained in this thinking. But, I'm just one guy who "abuses" his guns.

I use white lithium grease, for every lubrication application, on all my guns.

Except for trigger group contact surfaces where I use Moly Slide, and some Lubriplate here and there.

I don't oil anything.

Oil goes away when things heat up.

If I'm wrong I should be experiencing a lot of failures.

Grease does does spend wear products, but doesn't prevent them from contacting the surface; they become suspended in the grease, and yes, in theory they could become aggregates, but unless you don't change the grease for exceptionally long periods and have a lot of wear, then it's not an issue. If you're simply seeing the grease darken, don't get to excited, as the color of oil or grease give NO indication of it's viability as a lubricant.

In other words, the color means nothing. You shouldn't be seeing so much wear in a pistol that you're getting enough particulates to cause further wear, and what wear you do get, if any, from suspended particles, will be the same material.

Lapping compound is not the same material as the surface being greased. Suspended wear material is the same material as the surface being greased; that's one critical difference. Lapping compound is intended to polish and provide a very, very minor wear between parts, to get them to wear together. This is not the case with grease, which is provided to reduce friction and help separate parts with a layer of grease.

I use grease on most things, rather than oil. Grease doesn't migrate so much, whereas oil does; oil is messier, and while useful for penetrating, most places like pins get a light coat of grease before they're installed. Most of my pistols get a light coat of grease on the outside of the barrel and on the inside of the barrel bushing or slide to reduce friction on the barrel and barrel wear. Recoil spring assy's get light oil, as in very little. I also clean the pistols regularly; if they're not going to be cleaned regularly, adjust accordingly.

Lapping compound, by its nature, includes abrasives. Now just any old gritty stuff like French fry dust, doesn't work. So for grease to turn into lapping compound, you'd have to get something like aluminum oxide, silicon carbide or diamond dust to migrate into it.

In other words, stop listening to people at gun counters...on either side.

quote:

Originally posted by DSgrouse:
I have a vbob with hard hat. Same thing as dw duty treat. I use grease on the rails or flat bits, oil on turny bits. I use clp, and hoppes. I have well over 10k through it. My dw guardian has the duty treat on it(slide) and has been abused the same way.

What CLP do you use. This is another issue that has come up with the Duty Treatment, that CLP, or some CLP, will cloud or spot the finish.

quote:

Grease is a "lapping compound" when it gets dirty?

On "tight guns?"

I could go on for hours about the superstitions ingrained in this thinking. But, I'm just one guy who "abuses" his guns.

Thank you. This is why I ask. There are many instances in many areas of practice where people make statements based on "armchair" theorizing. However, they never actually test or experiment to prove their conclusions.

In theory, you might understand why someone might conclude that grease plus grit = lapping compound, and then avoid it like the plague. However, without testing and experimentation, such reasoning is simply an hypothesis.

quote:

I use grease on most things, rather than oil. Grease doesn't migrate so much, whereas oil does; oil is messier, and while useful for penetrating, most places like pins get a light coat of grease before they're installed. Most of my pistols get a light coat of grease on the outside of the barrel and on the inside of the barrel bushing or slide to reduce friction on the barrel and barrel wear. Recoil spring assy's get light oil, as in very little. I also clean the pistols regularly; if they're not going to be cleaned regularly, adjust accordingly.

quote:

I use grease on most things, rather than oil. Grease doesn't migrate so much, whereas oil does; oil is messier, and while useful for penetrating, most places like pins get a light coat of grease before they're installed. Most of my pistols get a light coat of grease on the outside of the barrel and on the inside of the barrel bushing or slide to reduce friction on the barrel and barrel wear. Recoil spring assy's get light oil, as in very little. I also clean the pistols regularly; if they're not going to be cleaned regularly, adjust accordingly.

This is my practice as well.

I grease the rails on both the frame and slide, although perhaps I only need to do one or the other. I also grease the top of the barrel and usually the top of the inside of the slide and often the bushing if the gun has one.

Oil for everything else. I've been told that grease will also "gum up" the works, but I've never found that to be the case. The argument is that it collect dust, dirt and debris. I've never found that to be the case. I suppose if I were to go for long periods without cleaning and use my guns in a very dirty environment, that might be more the case, but I just don't see it.

“Get some damn grease,” a famous SIGforum member once said.

Grease can suspend metal shavings from ammo and wear on the gun and act on one. I would think it would have to be really dirty in order to act as lapping compound, but I can see where it would. I would grease a sig because it's alloy, but nothing else. But generally, in most things machinery, you grease slow moving parts and use oil on fast moving parts. I use oil on all of my pistols, because that's what they're designed to use (according to the manufacturer).

Why wouldn't oil suspend these particles as well?

Think of where you're using it, it's not like a metal chip sinking to the bottom of the oil pan in your car engine. You're talking about a fine film between two pieces of metal. If that doesn't hold the junk there, it means it "washed away", and your oil went with it, so it's not helping anyway.

quote:

Originally posted by cas:
Why wouldn't oil suspend these particles as well?

Think of where you're using it, it's not like a metal chip sinking to the bottom of the oil pan in your car engine. You're talking about a fine film between two pieces of metal. If that doesn't hold the junk there, it means it "washed away", and your oil went with it, so it's not helping anyway.

I feel oil pushes the fine particles off to the side of the moving parts. With oil it is usually a fine film that is left after the excess has been pushed away. Oil doesn't suspend metal particles, whereas on grease they are stuck where they are. While this is not scientific by any means. The dirtiest gun I have when I clean it is my Browning Buckmark .22. There are always fine metal particles you can feel with your fingers when cleaning it, they usually are never in the frame rails but pushed or stuck to other non moving areas, magazine well, inside of the slide, etc, I've seen a lot of guns that have 40k rounds using nothing but oil and they're functioning fine. Use what you think is best.

"Grease on tight guns - is it a lapping compound?"

Let me guess -- you've been reading about Les Baer's 1911 pistols.

I’ve heard a lot of people say how this or that gets stuck in grease on their firearms, and that’s why oil is better.

Just how much grease are these people putting on these parts?!?!
There should only be a light film applied to the surface so as to see it there. You’re not packing a damned wheel bearing folks. The grease stays put better than oil so the excess grease that would “grab” this grit is unnecessary.

quote:

Originally posted by cas:
Why wouldn't oil suspend these particles as well?
Think of where you're using it, it's not like a metal chip sinking to the bottom of the oil pan in your car engine. You're talking about a fine film between two pieces of metal. If that doesn't hold the junk there, it means it "washed away", and your oil went with it, so it's not helping anyway.

Exactly.

Unless you have one of the new guns that have an onboard oil pump and filter attached to the light rail, the stuff is going to stay where the lube is no matter what that lube is, so you might as well use something that works.
Calling it "lapping compound" is quite the joke IMHO.

Only lapping I'm familiar with.



Not applicable for slides or scope rings.

Kinda long, but this guy has some opinions on lubrication....
https://youtu.be/pQuNgXqWPEo

quote:

Originally posted by jimmy123x:


I feel oil pushes the fine particles off to the side of the moving parts.

But the oil it's floating in stays? That sounds like magic.



It all depends on how one spins their personal theory.
One could just as well argue that oil is bad BECAUSE the particles can move through it and allows particles to flow farther into the gun. They could argue that grease being more of a solid, fills the gaps and keeps junk out of the gun and NOT allowing it inside to the bearing surfaces? After all, how if it getting in there if it's full of grease?

They're your guns, use whatever you want.
Don't use anything for all I care.

quote:

Originally posted by cas:

quote:

Originally posted by jimmy123x:


I feel oil pushes the fine particles off to the side of the moving parts.

But the oil it's floating in stays? That sounds like magic.



It all depends on how one spins their personal theory.
One could just as well argue that oil is bad BECAUSE the particles can move through it and allows particles to flow farther into the gun. They could argue that grease being more of a solid, fills the gaps and keeps junk out of the gun and NOT allowing it inside to the bearing surfaces? After all, how if it getting in there if it's full of grease?

They're your guns, use whatever you want.
Don't use anything for all I care.

There is no oil floating....just a very very fine film of oil...…..like if you sprayed pam on a pan and wiped it off with a paper towel.....the surface of the pan would still be slippery with an oil residue. If you threw something on the pan and slid a spatula across the pan the object would easily slide out of the way when hit with the spatula? My theory is the particles don't get stuck where they get stuck, on a slide and frame, the slide pushes the particles out of the way as it moves back and forth......whereas they get stuck in the grease......these are my thoughts only. HOWEVER, you can't go wrong if you simply follow your pistol manufacturers maintenance recommendations, they are in your owners manual for a reason.

The OP is asking about tight guns. Les Baer, Ed Brown, and Wilson Combat all recommend oil. They do not recommend using grease anywhere on their website or in their owners manual.

There is such a thing called lapping compound that you use (machinists usually) to wear in/fit parts together. The one Brownells sells for lapping frames and slides together (fitting) and other various moving parts. is 600 or 800 grit (or other grit) aluminum oxide particles suspended in grease. It stays put for the most part on what you put it on and you can work the slide back and forth numerous times until the high spots are worn down and everything fits together well and the lapping compound is generally still on there. I've lapped a lot of stuff together over the years.

https://www.brownells.com/guns...pounds-prod1137.aspx