Looking for insights. I have a P938 but am considering getting a P230 to obtain the same manual of arms as my P228 and P226.

Assuming a proper modern premium defensive ammunition, am I really at any particular disadvantage with a P230?

P230 = 3.6"
P938 = 3.5"
capacity = 7 + 1 for both

The chart in this video, -- (linked and synced to the appropriate point in the video), seems to indicate surprisingly similar results, albeit the .380ACP sample size is somewhat small.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: r0gue,

The P225-A1 has a 3.6" barrel, and Gun Digest got 939 FPS and 1,114 FPS for a couple of good defensive 124 grain 9mm loads from it.

http://www.gundigest.com/gun-r...ew-sig-sauer-p225-a1

The 230 I shot (like many other similar-sized .380s I've shot) felt pretty snappy.

If you don't see yourself needing a heavier bullet with a slight edge in muzzle velocity for penetration and deformation, then I guess it probably doesn't make any difference if you opt for the P230.

I'm assuming your concealment needs dictate a smaller pistol. If not, there have been some reasonable deals online on used P225A1s lately and new magazines are still available on the internutz. I wouldn't be surprised if some P6/P225s and P239s are available as well. They're obviously bigger, but do come with the same operating system as the P230.

quote:

Originally posted by r0gue:


Assuming a proper modern premium defensive ammunition, am I really at any particular disadvantage with a P230?

IMO yes. It's much easier to find a 9mm load that will reliably reach the FBI minimum penetration distance in calibrated ballistic gel and expand reliably. The .380 is very iffy, even with the couple of .380 loads that supposedly reach that minimum (if they expand), they are borderline at best. The advantage of the .380 is that it can be fired from extremely small, pocketable guns, and any gun is better than no gun.

but in today's world the pocket-sized 9mms are getting very good. IMO the P230 is gorgeous and accurate and reliable, so you could argue that it's appropriate. But today it's big for what it is. And if you want a true DA/SA pistol of that size, it's about the only choice unless you get a discontinued Springfield XD-E.

Have a close look at the S&W Shield Plus, any of the various SIG P365s, and the Springfield Hellcat, at a minimum.

That said, the P230 is a fine pistol.

Why yes, .380 usually sucks compared to 9mm. Not to mention 230/232 mags are unobtanium and run $100+. And you've just slowed downed your reload time with the heel release. Which you might need if using a .380. I'm not against .380, but it falls in the back-up weapon category to me. Too many similar size 9mm options in this day and age. If you must go smaller & .380, I'd look at the S&W BG II. 10+1 and fairly shootable for its size. My ammo choice for .380 is Fed. Hydra-Shok Deep. Seems to be the only one that can make 12" and expand.

If you want continuity, why not a used P239? I just picked this 9mm (8+1) up for $399. And mags are still produced. It also shoots more like a full-size gun than a compact. Parts support are more available than a P230. And better sights are available. I just put in an SRT today and have a Superstrut on the way.

The data in your chart would indicate that .380 acp produces the highest percent incapacitations with a low percent of not incapacitated, more so than .40, 9mm and 45, which ballistically rank much higher in theoretical effectiveness on live targets.

The dimensions of the P239 aren't very much smaller than the P229, but it sure is a lot more concealable. Especially IWB with a tucked shirt. And thus also more comfortable than the P229 IWB.

The P239 is not, however, a pocket pistol nor a boot pistol. A small 380 is much more concealable when deep concealment is needed under lighter weight clothing.

In a perfect world we would have perhaps 4 different pistols to carry under different situations.

I feel I’m in the category of a ‘low probability’ CC individual. I don’t hang in areas of higher likelihood of a defensive scenario.

That all said, I normally have no problem carrying a 380, often P238. I do use Lehigh Defense copper bullets, mostly.

At times if I feel the need to get more serious I take my H&K in 40.

quote:

Originally posted by Arty:
The data in your chart would indicate that .380 acp produces the highest percent incapacitations with a low percent of not incapacitated, more so than .40, 9mm and 45, which ballistically rank much higher in theoretical effectiveness on live targets.

Yeah, that's crazy isn't it? All of the sample sizes are modest at best, and the .380 is especially so.

What happened to your avatar r0gue? I’ve always liked it. But now it’s just a little green square with a white question mark.

quote:

Originally posted by Pipe Smoker:
What happened to your avatar r0gue? I’ve always liked it. But now it’s just a little green square with a white question mark.

I did some clean up on my web host. Must have deleted it. Is it back now?

^^^^
Yep, it’s back.

Who is the character pictured by your avatar? I love the bowler hat!

That's George Smiley, as portrayed by Alec Guinness. If you've never seen these two mini-series (Tinker Tailor Soldier Spy and Smiley's People), I cannot recommend them highly enough. Truly superb cold war theater!

The BBC spy series starring Alec Guinness is Tinker Tailor Soldier Spy, a 1979 seven-part adaptation of John le Carré's novel. Guinness played the lead role of George Smiley, an aging British intelligence agent tasked with finding a Soviet mole within MI6. He later reprised his role in the 1982 BBC sequel, Smiley's People.

^^^^^^^
Thanks. I’ve long wondered.

When I carry my P230, it’s loaded with standard pressure Buffalo Bore Hardcast semi wadcutters. Not penetrating deeply enough is not a concern.

You owe it to yourself to try a “newer” 380. I don’t own a 230 but I’ve shot blowback 380’s (ppk/s, B84) and they aren’t nice to shoot. They are snappy for size and the 230 has low cap. I’m a broken record but easily the best 380 on the market for carry is the S&W Bodyguard 2.0. Don’t believe the naysayers, these things are great.

quote:

Originally posted by Dump1567:
If you want continuity, why not a used P239? I just picked this 9mm (8+1) up for $399. And mags are still produced.

Who is/are still making P239 mags?

quote:

Originally posted by dsiets:

quote:

Originally posted by Dump1567:
If you want continuity, why not a used P239? I just picked this 9mm (8+1) up for $399. And mags are still produced.

Who is/are still making P239 mags?

As far as I know, Sig is. I just bought 4 NIW, and see them in stock at a few retailers. But all were dated 2023, so maybe there new, old stock?

And per GROK AI:

Sig periodically reorders batches through their OEM partner, Mec-Gar. Users often sign up for restock notifications at these sites.

So I guess they’re made by Mec-Gar. So unlike 230/232 mags, they’re readily available.