quote:

Originally posted by agony:
I'm in the process of building a Glock 19 with a RMR. I won't carry it until it can prove to be reliable enough. I've been shooting an RMR'd 17 almost exclusively for the past year and it has been reliable...until the red dot crapped out on me recently.

Not surprising given the harsh and violent environment that the optic has to deal with. Even Trijicon electronics can only take so much beating from the slide slamming back and forth. One of our regulars competes and he goes through one or two during the year, thankful of Trijicon's warranty policy. I more or less figure that for my MOS G19 where I'm planning on using a red dot that IF this gun somehow ends up becoming my EDC, I'll need to have a backup unit for when the primary has to take a trip back to Trijicon for repair or replacement. Because of my M45A1 purchase I still haven't yet bought the first one (though the tall silencer sights are installed), but when the purchase happens there will be a second following shortly if not arriving at the same time. It's only $$$...

I do like using red dots on my rimfire pistols and how quickly I can acquire the sight and get on target, but there the optic isn't getting hammered with the shock of the cycling of the slide that those are NOT directly attached to. Plus with those it's 22LR, not 9mm; even I the optimist isn't naive enough to believe that such small electronics have gotten robust to the point that they can endlessly ride and survive the pistol world's equivalent of a rodeo bull.

The big complaint is the reliability. I know some guys that have had some luck with them. I know others that have broken multiple. I watched Hilton Yam go through two in one of my high round count classes. One quit working the other lost the auto-brightness function. Hilton is far from the only one.

As to the idea that they are "faster", I agree to a point. At 5, 7, and 10, I can't see a difference. Beyond 10, there is a pretty big difference. My draw times at the closer distances for a given accuracy standard is about the same. Add low light, unconventional shooting positions in, and I think it is a wash until about the 10.

I'm not a hater. I am intrigued by the Carry Optics division, and figure that IDPA will probably add a division next year. I'll probably shoot that division. But, on a carry gun, the lack of dependability will make me wait a while yet.

The comparison to rifles isn't even close. Rifle optics (see Aimpoint) are as close to 100 percent reliable as you can get. RMR's and the like just aren't there yet.

quote:

Originally posted by jljones:

As to the idea that they are "faster", I agree to a point. At 5, 7, and 10, I can't see a difference. Beyond 10, there is a pretty big difference.

This goes along the lines of my thinking as well, from 0-10 yards, i don't see a huge difference, past 10 and really past 15 i see i marked improvement. I don't have the round count of Agony or the skill of some of those on this thread, but right now i am more in favor of the Optic on a handgun, than not.

As far as bulk, i just don't see it unless you wear super tight clothing, for me i have not had to change anything and my 19 conceals the same.

I have two compact Glocks with RMRs, one has about 1500 rounds, and the other about 700-800 while equipped with RMRs, while i know it's very small sample no issues to report yet.

He is a crappy pic of them (don't mind the dinosaurs) and followed by one of my main (summer)holsters for them.

quote:

The big complaint is the reliability.

I can understand that. And ultimately I don't think we will get to rifle level reliability. You can't sling the optic around at a zillion 'g's without some impact. But with backup irons I am sort of in the camp of so what? When the optics down I use the irons. I'm no worse off except for the tiny fraction of a second where I don't know its down and I transition. For me that small window of uncertainty is worth the knowledge that when the optic is up I can make shots at distance with reliability and accuracy way beyond my irons only capability. Of course it doesn't hurt that I've now over 20K rounds downrange with an RMR and only a single failure, so I'm feeling pretty confident about the uptime.

I hope we get to rifle level quality.

EDC? Everyday Joe like me? Pass

G19MOS with an RMR and Dawson Suppressor Sights. If the RMR flakes out, the Suppressor sights are there to provide some air conditioning where needed..

I'm finally willing to invest the money to try it out. Aging eyes will get most people and I have pretty much given up on finding an eye doctor that knows how to prescribe for pistol shooting. The red dots on carry guns is not a new and Gabe Suarez has been recommending them since the first Trijicon RMR showed up. Of course it may have been a business decision. Many of the older USPSA shooters swear by them and I hope they made it to IDPA. I may need to make an accurate shot from beyond 15 yards some day so if I have to replace a couple it's not that much in the scheme of firearms training as long as you don't buy a $700 one. Really cool new one introduced at Shot 2017 by a UK company. I hope a distributer picks it up here. I'm willing to give it a shot as they say

quote:

Originally posted by mrtuna:
I'm finally willing to invest the money to try it out. Aging eyes will get most people and I have pretty much given up on finding an eye doctor that knows how to prescribe for pistol shooting. The red dots on carry guns is not a new and Gabe Suarez has been recommending them since the first Trijicon RMR showed up. Of course it may have been a business decision. Many of the older USPSA shooters swear by them and I hope they made it to IDPA. I may need to make an accurate shot from beyond 15 yards some day so if I have to replace a couple it's not that much in the scheme of firearms training as long as you don't buy a $700 one. Really cool new one introduced at Shot 2017 by a UK company. I hope a distributer picks it up here. I'm willing to give it a shot as they say

Is the UK one you mention the Shield RMS? If so, Suarez International sells them, but you can also order directly from Shield, in the UK. There is a 2-3 week delay in getting them right now, due to demand. I ordered two of them directly from Shield last week, and am waiting to get them. They are going on my P320 Compact and Subcompact as finding RX versions was next to impossible. I like the fact that, as it looks, you can cowitness with your standard sights. Which means you don't need to find a holster that accepts suppressor height sights.

quote:

Originally posted by md-dave:

quote:

Originally posted by mrtuna:
I'm finally willing to invest the money to try it out. Aging eyes will get most people and I have pretty much given up on finding an eye doctor that knows how to prescribe for pistol shooting. The red dots on carry guns is not a new and Gabe Suarez has been recommending them since the first Trijicon RMR showed up. Of course it may have been a business decision. Many of the older USPSA shooters swear by them and I hope they made it to IDPA. I may need to make an accurate shot from beyond 15 yards some day so if I have to replace a couple it's not that much in the scheme of firearms training as long as you don't buy a $700 one. Really cool new one introduced at Shot 2017 by a UK company. I hope a distributer picks it up here. I'm willing to give it a shot as they say

Is the UK one you mention the Shield RMS? If so, Suarez International sells them, but you can also order directly from Shield, in the UK. There is a 2-3 week delay in getting them right now, due to demand. I ordered two of them directly from Shield last week, and am waiting to get them. They are going on my P320 Compact and Subcompact as finding RX versions was next to impossible. I like the fact that, as it looks, you can cowitness with your standard sights. Which means you don't need to find a holster that accepts suppressor height sights.

Yes that's the model. I'm not sure about their warranty yet since it has to be shipped back to the UK. I just picked up a Deltapoint for $350 new and am probably going to get my P320 Compact milled for it. I wanted a full sized RX but the P320 demand is far exceeding demand right now and availability for guns, grips, parts, mags etc are getting scarce.

For IPSC and recreational target shooting, yeah, it's neat. But I don't think it's really practical for carry.

First, I'd think that a frame-mounted laser would give you faster target acquisition; all you do is bring the red dot up on target. That's only one step. With the optic, you have to bring the pistol up to a shooting position and get the target inside the viewfinder, then get the dot on target. I'd consider that two steps.

Second: With an optic, you have that little black frame around the red dot. If you've drawn your pistol in a potential deadly encounter, the frame can block or distort enough of your view of what's around the target to miss seeing an additional threat.

Third: With the laser, you're giving the suspect that brief moment to look down and see a little red dot on his chest. That's a strong incentive for him to put down the gun or knife.

Not me unless your gun can co-witness. Electronics die at the worst times. Even my rifles, I always have irons to fall back on. Chris

My eyes are aging and I am hopeful that optic sights evolve in reliability to the point I can EDC with confidence.
Until that time.... Pass.
And for all you guys that are using optics, give us a round count!

quote:

Originally posted by Chris Anchor:
Not me unless your gun can co-witness. Electronics die at the worst times. Even my rifles, I always have irons to fall back on. Chris

Wouldn't have a RMR unless i had my back up sights as well. I have ameriglo blacked out suppressor sights.

Use suppressor sights with your RMR. It's reliable enough...

I have a few glocks that could use the RMR, ok well I could use it, on a few glocks...

Wheres a good place to get it done,

I have a g34 thats NIB thinking about trading
it in on a G34 that's all ready for the RMR, depends on the trade difference to cost of having
the slide milled, shipped etc.

quote:

Originally posted by HRK:
I have a few glocks that could use the RMR, ok well I could use it, on a few glocks...

Wheres a good place to get it done,

I have a g34 thats NIB thinking about trading
it in on a G34 that's all ready for the RMR, depends on the trade difference to cost of having
the slide milled, shipped etc.

ATEi, L&M, Fire 4 Effect, and Jagerwerks are some well know companies that do solid work. I have only used Jagerwerks, they charge 125.00 for RMR cut, includes shipping back, and if you have sights (suppressor usually) to install he does that without charging you.

Realistically having your current slide cut will be the lost cost option. The only advantage of swapping to an MOS glock is that it offers the option of using optics other than the one your slide is cut for. I'd just send it to L&M, mount an RMR and shoot it till the cows come home.

C-More RTS2 being used in optics comp., and winning. Have it mounted on my P320 carry EDC. Really like it for us old farts.

quote:

Originally posted by Gundawg:

quote:

Originally posted by HRK:
I have a few glocks that could use the RMR, ok well I could use it, on a few glocks...

Wheres a good place to get it done,

I have a g34 thats NIB thinking about trading
it in on a G34 that's all ready for the RMR, depends on the trade difference to cost of having
the slide milled, shipped etc.

ATEi, L&M, Fire 4 Effect, and Jagerwerks are some well know companies that do solid work. I have only used Jagerwerks, they charge 125.00 for RMR cut, includes shipping back, and if you have sights (suppressor usually) to install he does that without charging you.

Suarez did mine and Galloway Precision did a good job on a 9mm Shield.