I've had a number of handguns over the years that experience what I call "sight dip"--as the slide moves forward and back into battery after the shot, the front of the gun dips lower and then bounces back up so that sights are again aligned.

I have disliked this phenomena and have sold every firearm that his done this. Guns that have done this to me include:

G30sf
G34
P320 (full size)
STI Guardian (9mm)
Sig Pro 2009


Every gun that i've experienced this with I have sold. I cannot tolerate it, as I seems to slow down follow-up shots.

That is why I have learned to avoid guns that are front heavy or or over-sprung.

Does this phenomena bother others?

What guns have you experience this with?

Subjective feelings aside, does this phenomena objectively negatively impact shooting performance?

Wouldn’t physics dictate the front of the slide to go up since the grip is below the slide and your hand acts as a fulcrum? I would guess for some reason you push the front of the slide down when you are firing those weapons

quote:

Originally posted by gentleone:
I've had a number of handguns over the years that experience what I call "sight dip"--as the slide moves forward and back into battery after the shot, the front of the gun dips lower and then bounces back up so that sights are again aligned.

I have disliked this phenomena and have sold every firearm that his done this. Guns that have done this to me include:

G30sf
G34
P320 (full size)
STI Guardian (9mm)
Sig Pro 2009


Every gun that i've experienced this with I have sold. I cannot tolerate it, as I seems to slow down follow-up shots.

That is why I have learned to avoid guns that are front heavy or or over-sprung.

Does this phenomena bother others?

What guns have you experience this with?

Subjective feelings aside, does this phenomena objectively negatively impact shooting performance?

I've changed my recoil springs to match my load so it's generally "neutral". Have you ever tried this?
Basically, do a "Bill Drill" at 7 yards....six shots as fast as you can in a 8" circle without missing. If the group moves up, then use a heavier rate recoil spring. If the group moves down (dips) then decrease the recoil spring (less spring rate). A lot of places sell "tuner" kits to get it right.

Regarding the G34 and p320, i had installed lower force recoil springs to reduce the sight dip phenomena. the lower power springs helped , but i rid myself of the pistols anyway.

Yeah, funny how “high bore axis” pistols can have muzzle dip. It’s so weird, almost like bore axis doesn’t actually matter.

Anyway, a good number of competitive shooters will play with recoil spring rates to find the right place where recoil, timing, and muzzle dip/rise are balanced. I would agree that most factory guns are intentionally over sprung to ensure against failures and maybe premature wear.

Whether you modify spring rates, live with it as is, or dump it if it doesn’t suit you is all up to you. There is a lot to be said for predictable rise and fall during recoil.

I know you're talking about pistols with very different grips, but could that have something to do with the way the back of the grip fits into the base of your hand? I've never had the problem with a 320 or (in my case) a 9mm 2022.

Do you mean spring load or spring rate? I have never heard of tuning with rate, but it makes technical sense.

Ha! I don't shoot fast enough or well enough for that to be a problem

quote:

Originally posted by ensigmatic:
Ha! I don't shoot fast enough or well enough for that to be a problem

Yeah, I was kinda thinking the same thing. File this one under “problems good shooters have.”

quote:

Originally posted by P220 Smudge:

quote:

Originally posted by ensigmatic:
Ha! I don't shoot fast enough or well enough for that to be a problem

Yeah, I was kinda thinking the same thing. File this one under “problems good shooters have.”

Indeed! When I can out shoot Robbie Leatham then I'll worry about it. Till then my old, slow ass is just happy to still be able to follow the front sight.

quote:

Originally posted by mhughes:
Wouldn’t physics dictate the front of the slide to go up since the grip is below the slide and your hand acts as a fulcrum? I would guess for some reason you push the front of the slide down when you are firing those weapons

No, not at all what he is speaking of. He is speaking of the mechanical act of the gun being oversprung from the factory. Most manufacturers use the same recoil spring for both 9mm and .40 caliber. So, in the 9mm the gun returns to battery upon cycling more violently due to the spring being too heavy for the recoil impulse. This return causes the muzzle to dip below the line of sight, causing the shooter to have to bring the front sight back up into the line of sight to correct for the gun being oversprung.

It is actually pretty common and it doesn't bother me due to the fact if I like the gun, I just adjust the recoil spring accordingly

It doesn't matter how you hold the gun as long as you are doing it correctly. That is somewhat of a trick statement in the fact that "correctly" means you do not put any false inputs into the gun to "control" the recoil. That is bad from any perspective. The simple answer is to go with a lighter recoil spring.

I shoot a solid thumbs forward grip pretty much all the time and experience very little dip or flip at any speed. I know it’s not for everyone but it’s made all the difference for me, especially with close to mid range rapid follow up shots. Works just as well with my P220 or 226 .40.

P320 Compact, 9mm, 15’
https://vimeo.com/338361262

I carried a Berretta back in the 90's, for a few years. I always felt like I could feel the slide hammer back and hammer forward. Maybe just due to the light weight of the frame, or the way the weight of the slide is all at the back. I don't know. I don't feel that in most Glocks, and they're light.

I noticed some dip with the P320F, but just drove the front sight. I decided to try a lighter spring and went with the Grayguns fat guide rod and a fifteen pound spring. I played with 11-15 lbs, and ended up presently using a 14 lb ISMI 1911 spring, which seems to work fine, and am using a lighter load to match it.

I didn't go with the spring and rod arrangement to compensate for "dip," however. I was having some issues with cycling with the load, and felt that the 18 lb spring might be the issue; reducing the spring slightly has made for much better functioning right now, with this load.

Can't comment on the actual phenomenon as even if it happens to me I don't notice it. And for sure it doesn't affect my shooting. But taking the G34 as an example a gun shot by about a zillion people winning a semi-zillion competitions, it can't be a real impediment to successful results.
Same for me on a sigpro. doesn't happen. I don't yet go fast on a 320 (I'm trying on a bet with jljones) but lots of people do so guessing it doesn't bother them either.
So I think you are in the lost souls camp. learn to deal with it and move on.

I’m guessing they tuned the recoil springs to match the loads they shoot. I tuned the recoil springs on the G34 and P320 (full size). Testing did reveal i noticeable reduction in muzzle di[p]. But alas, I sold those pistols.

I don't know what people who win at a national level do. But those who win at my local level shoot the G34 in its factory configuration. FWIW>

quote:

Originally posted by hrcjon:
I don't know what people who win at a national level do. But those who win at my local level shoot the G34 in its factory configuration. FWIW>

This is my experience as well. But, to be fair, most shoot factory ammunition as well, and attempt to take no advantage from handloading.