Very familiar with the 547 - 3" and 4" round and square butt - although I don't own one, and wouldn't due to the complicated extractor mechanism, which also hinders quick reloads. No need since the moon clip is such a more elegant, simplistic solution. I plead "senior moment."

I would suggest that if you are going to purchase a revolver in the future, you stick to rimmed cartridges.

Why are people always trying to make things into something they were never intended to be?

I'm done.

Adios,

Pizza Bob

Well until you become the guy who decides how things should be they will make things that sell or that make sense. These do both. Ballistics of 9mm out of snubnose are better than you think and they certainly are cheaper than 357/38. Your argument about SA guns and extraction make no sense. It either fires on the appropriate headspace of the cylinder as in any of these convertible Rutgers or it doesn’t as in the case of this Smith.

It is just plain poor design to make a rimless cartridge revolver that REQUIRES moon clips to function. No way to sugar coat that. It’s not a smart design.

If Ruger figures it out you would think the Performance Center could as well.

quote:

Originally posted by Pizza Bob:
the complicated extractor mechanism, which also hinders quick reloads.

The 547 is nothing more than an historical curiosity now, but its extractor mechanism had no effect on reloading whatsoever. The small leaf springs that serve as extractors move down and completely out of the way of the cartridges when the extractor star is fully forward. I even have a couple of HKS speedloaders for the revolver and I never had any problems reloading using them, and, of course no problem loading the gun conventionally with one cartridge at a time. But that’s immaterial to the question of whether revolvers can be made that don’t require clips to fire.

I will congratulate you, though, on never having had problems finding parts or accessories for long-discontinued guns, or even for guns that haven’t been discontinued all that long. I wonder how people who are trying to find factory extractors for P226 pistols with carbon steel slides are faring these days. The last time I was interested in doing so was several years ago, and they were tough to find even then. I’m sure I could cite many examples if I thought about it, but my other notable experience was trying to find a magazine for a friend who had an older rifle (Remington, IIRC, but I don’t remember the model). There were none to be found despite exhaustive Internet searches. But you may be right. Perhaps no one will ever acquire an old 9mm S&W revolver at a killer price only to be told, “Yeah, you have to find a clip to fire it; good luck,” but I wouldn’t bet the rent (or the price of such a gun) on that.
Hmm .... I wonder if I can find some spare extractor springs for the 547.

So, will this thing shoot 380ACP rounds?

1] I think it is a safe statement to make that by far most revolvers made for rimless cases have headspacing shoulders cut in the chambers EXACTLY as do the semiauto pistols for which the rimless cartridges were first developed, if only because the total production of M1917 revolvers {both Colt and Smith} with case-mouth steps number about 250,000. Then add the post-WW1 Brazilian contract and commercial 1917's and 25-2's, etc. An additional c. 50 grand or so, maybe less, of the M1917 Colts were without said steps and trouble was reported. IIRC Hatcher comments on that in one of his books. M1917's work fine with ACP ammo and no clips but often need the empty fired cases to be ejected with a dowel rod. I had a Smith I re-barreled with a Brazilian INA replacement barrel for years as a ranch gun and shot lots of butcher stock and whatnot with it. Carried it on and off the ranch in the mountains as well and often just dispensed with the pesky clips as I carried a little length of dowel rod in my pocket or when I forgot that, pried the cases out with a pocket knife. Cases could not be tapped into the chamber with a tack hammer as the cartridge mouth headspace cut stopped them.

2] The 547 was just as Sigfreund says, and was designed to function without clips, using a novel swinging tab extractor to grip the groove in the rimless case head. I think a bunch were made for the French police, too. I'm not aware of any clip system used in the 547 or that one can even be used? Not counting speedloaders, but then that isn't a clip system. The 547 is set up to headspace on the case mouth, regardless of whether it actually does with every round loaded. The latter situation is common enough with semiautos even, where as was said, the extractor forms the positive, or mostly positive stop for the entering case. The 547 and the 1917's {most of them} have what amounts to 6 barrels vis a vis the chambers that are identical to semiauto barrels in the form of chambering used; with cartridge mouth headspace shoulders. It is not correct to say that stepless barrels are made specifically to handle rimless cases tho many will. That photo above does not show a picture of the headspace step. That is just a picture of the leade in a modern stepless wheelgun cylinder.

3] Some modern rimless-ammo revolver manufacture uses a cheaper method of chambering, dispensing with the case mouth shoulder as nobody uses the guns without clips anyhow.

4] S&W M25-2 revolvers had case mouth shoulders cut in each chamber just as did the 1917's. I had one of them as well, and treated it the same way I did my '17.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: 3/4Flap,

My Charter Arms 9mm does not need moon clips.

Charter Arms also makes 45ACP not needing moon clips. Sold S&W 1917 that used moon clips. Never thought to look into cylinder. It was not very accurate.

Internet sales do sometimes included "used" or "selected" guns. Received a Ruger American that I did not check closely that was obviously heavy used and not cleaned. Poor pistol anyway - another SV9 - and long gone.

quote:

Originally posted by P320Mac:
My Charter Arms 9mm does not need moon clips.

Charter Arms also makes 45ACP not needing moon clips. Sold S&W 1917 that used moon clips. Never thought to look into cylinder. It was not very accurate.

Internet sales do sometimes included "used" or "selected" guns. Received a Ruger American that I did not check closely that was obviously heavy used and not cleaned. Poor pistol anyway - another SV9 - and long gone.

What system is used to eject the cases on your CA's?

Charter Arms 9mm revolver:
Action is conventional for a SA//DA revolver. Cylinder flops out on command - whack the ejection rod and fired cases are ejected.

I have not looked for a "speed loader" for the revolver.

quote:

Originally posted by P320Mac:
Charter Arms 9mm revolver:
Action is conventional for a SA//DA revolver. Cylinder flops out on command - whack the ejection rod and fired cases are ejected.

LOL.

I sort of got that.

But HOW.

Does the ejector star have swinging tabs that reach into the extraction groove like a Smith or some other arrangement?

quote:

Originally posted by Excam_Man:
So, will this thing shoot 380ACP rounds?

No. Comparing case dimensions shown in my Hornady reloading manual, the 380 case is smaller in several dimensions. The 380 extractor groove is cut deeper and has a smaller remaining diameter, so it will not hold in the 9mm Luger moon clip. I tried one round and it just falls out.

I'm not sure I see the point anyway. 380 ammunition is more expensive and the 986 is so soft shooting with 9mm Luger, I fail to see any benefit.

I would say "having options never hurts", but the recent Ruger Redhawks that allow the owner to shoot both .45 Colt and .45 ACP through the same cylinder seem to, well, suck when loaded with .45 ACP. Under those circumstances, I'm all for a revolver shooting one cartridge well.

quote:

Originally posted by Il Cattivo:
I would say "having options never hurts", but the recent Ruger Redhawks that allow the owner to shoot both .45 Colt and .45 ACP through the same cylinder seem to, well, suck when loaded with .45 ACP. Under those circumstances, I'm all for a revolver shooting one cartridge well.

Not allowed!!

You can't say that without a full description!!

Details, details, details!!

{that's the only wheelgun I have any current interest in so I'm hoping you will elaborate!}

Just wanted to say nice pics. Very drool-worthy!

quote:

Details, details, details!!

Internutz reports - the idea sounded pretty good to me, too. .45 Colt seems to work fine, but apparently the ACPs somehow don't consistently get along with the Colt chambers.

quote:

Originally posted by arfmel:
You've probably noticed the info in the manual regarding cleaning protocol for the titanium cylinder, but if not, have a good look before you clean it. I used to own a 40S&W L frame S&W revolver with a Ti cylinder and I always wished it had been made of stainless steel.

Yes, a possible concern.
Can you talk about your experience and difficulties with the cleaning process for the OP (and the rest of us thinking...)?

As I recall, they advise the use of a nylon brush rather than metal, and the use of a mild cleaning product like CLP or another non abrasive, no-ammonia cleaner. Evidently there is some sort of thin protective coating on the titanium that you don't want to abrade.

That titanium cylinder is why I eventually got rid of the Model 646 I had.

quote:

Originally posted by arfmel:
As I recall, they advise the use of a nylon brush rather than metal, and the use of a mild cleaning product like CLP or another non abrasive, no-ammonia cleaner. Evidently there is some sort of thin protective coating on the titanium that you don't want to abrade.

That titanium cylinder is why I eventually got rid of the Model 646 I had.

That is my memory of my experience with 38 Special titanium cylinders. (I recall the manuals warning about not injuring that thin covering or the titanium could catch on fire or something...). The nylon brush, etc, always made me feel I wasn't able to get the cylinder as clean.
I was wondering whether that would be less of an issue with 9mm jacketed rounds vs 38 lead?

quote:

Originally posted by Pizza Bob:
Very familiar with the 547 - 3" and 4" round and square butt - although I don't own one, and wouldn't due to the complicated extractor mechanism, which also hinders quick reloads. No need since the moon clip is such a more elegant, simplistic solution. I plead "senior moment."

I would suggest that if you are going to purchase a revolver in the future, you stick to rimmed cartridges.

Why are people always trying to make things into something they were never intended to be?

I'm done.

Adios,

Pizza Bob

I've owned both 3"& 4" Model 547 Smiths. There were -are speedloders for them I used back then. Oh how I regret selling them, the 4" model was a tack driver.

After owning those, going to any revolver design, that uses any kind of clip, personally is a PITA.

On a whim a few years back, purchased a Taurus 905, and it got old quickly with me fooling with clips, even the high quality ones from Ranch products, so I sold it. Recoil was not a problem to me in that 2" bbl.

If the half moon, fullmoon clips don't bother you, then enjoy any revolver that uses them, but it was not my cup of tea.

The moon clips are there to protect the titanium cylinder.