I'm looking for a good reliable home defense/SHTF full size DA/SA 45.

I've narrowed it down to 3, the P227, HK45, or FNX45. I've watched several reviews on all 3 and the reviews have been good for all so I cannot make up my mind.

Looking for some recommendations.

Thank you.

USP 45 or HK 45.

Some don't like the trigger but I have acclimated just fine and it is perfectly fine for me.
FS holds 12 round of 45>

HK45 or 45c.
HK USP .45 or USPc .45
Glock 21

Honestly I think the HK45 compact makes a lot of sense as a do all kind of a gun.

https://sigforum.com/eve/forum...0067464?r=6260077464

CZ 97B. If you can find one. The 227 would work too!

Why not a Sig P220? That is what I use for my home defense/SHTF. I know the magazine capacity is limited to 8 rounds, but I have a couple of extra loaded magazine with the pistol.

HK45.

https://pistol-training.com/hk...week-thirty-seven-2/ HK45 Endurance Test: Week Thirty Seven

"50,000 rounds in just over eight months.

And yes, as many of you have guessed, that is Larry “LAV” Vickers himself shooting #50,000. It seemed only fitting that the man most responsible for the HK45’s existence be there at the end of this incredible test.

Over the course of the entire test, just one single spring broke. The gun is still perfectly reliable and suitable for daily use. Now my wrists and elbows, on the other hand…

In fact, the HK45 had fewer problems at the 50,000 round mark than either of the previous two 9mm test guns, the S&W M&P9 or HK’s own P30! The HK45 truly is bomb proof, especially when you consider that except for two spring change maintenance cycles, every single part in the gun is original. Most companies recommend changing the recoil springs on their 9mm pistols three or four times more often than Heckler & Koch recommends for the HK45.

The HK45 fired its first 31,522 rounds without a bobble of any kind, another pistol-training.com endurance test record. But the mere fact that it out-performed those other pistols tells only part of the story............

The pistol was only cleaned seven times during the entire test, going 10,181 rounds between cleanings at one point."

Not one of your final choices but I second the CZ97b. Not only is it an excellent pistol but the mags are about half the cost by comparison.

quote:

Originally posted by Badhammer:
Not one of your final choices but I second the CZ97b. Not only is it an excellent pistol but the mags are about half the cost by comparison.

I agree too ! Nicest shooting 45 acp that I've ever shot. It's large and heavy and doesn't fit my small hands (I'm 5'3") otherwise I would have one. Seems ideal for home defense. Definitely not a common choice for concealed carry, though !

Hk. No question for me

The only HK I’ve ever shot was a USP in .40, it was okay. For me when it comes to .45s it’s the P220 in some form and nothing else. I shoot it really well…

I will tell you why I sold my pair of all stainless steel SIG P220's chambered in .45ACP, and got the HK45 as a replacement.
Where I live, sourcing store bought ammo is a major challenge. Other locations in the USA may not have this problem.
Here, it's illegal to purchase ammo online and have it shipped to your home.
NY State Police administers PAID background checks for all in-the-store ammo purchases within the state borders. Paid for by the ammo purchaser.

A box of .22LR, a box of 12 gauge birdshot, a box of 30-06 deer hunting ammo, all require a NYSP paid background check.
My personal belief is that it isn't any of their fucking business, what ammo I purchase, or how much.
So I might possibly buy my ammo outside the state border, or load my own. That NYSP database for inside the state border ammo purchases, is one I simply prefer not to be on.
Why? Because no good will ever come from being on that database.

The SIG P220 platform was designed a long time ago, what is it now, 50 + years ago?
I had sourced a case of "major player" name brand .45ACP ball ammo, 230 grain, some time ago.
I took the all stainless SIG P220's to the range for some informal target shooting.

I started loading SIG factory eight round stainless steel magazines, and after three/four loaded rounds went into the magazines, the bullet nose ogives started dragging on the inside of the magazine tubes.
Those wonderful all stainless steel SIG P220's in .45ACP were rendered inoperative, or almost as bad, jam-o-matics. Simply because that case of ammo was incompatible in SIG P220 .45ACP pistols.

When I returned from the range, I took several boxes of the suspect ammo, and started measuring individual cartridges. Then comparing measured dimensions against reloading manual data, and the SAAMI specs.
My initial guess was that I had a case of ammo that was bad production, with an OAL dimension that was out of specification. (excessively long)
But careful measuring proved this was not the actual issue in play. The real issue was the shape of the bullet nose, or ogive. The overall length of the suspect ammo was well within SAAMI OAL specs.

So where I live, a .45ACP DA/SA handgun needs to be able to function 100% with ANY .45ACP ammo that is loaded to SAAMI specifications. Simply due to the inability of sourcing store bought ammo here.
That is simply not possible with the SIG P220 chambered in .45ACP, as the internal magazine dimensions, and the round shape at the front of the magazine tubes are not a good match with SOME bullet
nose shapes/profiles/ogives. It isn't that the SAAMI loaded round overall length specification has changed, (it has not) but the shape of the factory bullet nose/profile/ogive, over the 50 + years HAS changed since the SIG P220 platform was designed.

The HK45 is a double stack, or a stack and a half in the storage portion of the magazine tube, and single column feed at the magazine feed lips.
The HK45 doesn't exhibit the same feeding/loading magazines issue that the SIG P220's can have. Also due to the HK45 flat faced magazine tube front surface, with tons of additional space available for different shaped bullet nose shape/profiles/ogives.

If you live in a location where if this problem appears, you just go to the store and buy a different brand of ammo, with a bullet nose shape/ogive that will work in a SIG P220, all is good.
In my location, that just isn't possible.

So I do miss the all stainless SIG P220's that I sold. But the HK45 for me, is a much better choice.
SIG P220 capacity in .45ACP is eight plus one. Or the extended/protruding length magazines, ten plus one.
HK45 stock is ten plus one and all contained within the handgun grip.

It was a "No Brainer" for me, here at my location.
The HK45, the replacement for the pair of all stainless P220's, it happily "eats" that same case of "suspect" ammo, that simply would not function in the SIG P220 platform.
I do recall a thread here on this Forum, where someone had bought a box of the .45ACP SIG V-Crown premium self defense ammo, and had the same issue when loading the P220 magazines.
They then called SIG CS, and couldn't get a reasonable answer why SIG's premium self defense ammo, would not function in a SIG P220 pistol.

This is a simple problem for SIG to address with the ammo incompatibility problem. Redesign the P220, and the magazines. Increase the internal front to rear magazine well distance inside the grip frame.
Redesign the magazines, increase the front to rear distance, and eliminate the rounded profile on the front of the magazine tubes. Change the magazine tube shape to purely rectangular cross section.
Will this ever happen? Highly unlikely, as the P220 platform probably isn't a big seller for them.

The end result would be two different variations of the same pistol platform, with each version having a requirement for different grips, magazines, and possibly small parts differences.
Do I ever expect SIG to make this change in the P220 platform? I am not holding my breath while I am waiting.

Had not looked at the CZ97B, probably cause not available anywhere. Thanks for all the input so far. Only reason I had not considered the P220 is capacity, but could be option depending on what's available once I pull the trigger...so to speak.

quote:

Originally posted by Ghostface7.62:
The only HK I’ve ever shot was a USP in .40, it was okay. For me when it comes to .45s it’s the P220 in some form and nothing else. I shoot it really well…

It may not be the most practical choice on paper due to its weight/capacity ratio, but I also love the P220. Superbly reliable, better ergos, and WAY better trigger than any HK ever made. In my particular case it also shares a manual of arms and holster fitment with the rest of my carry guns, and many of the fire control parts as well. Those benefits are worth the price of a few rounds to me, but obviously YMMV. Ultimately, I'll stick with my P220, because in a scenario where I'm prioritizing capacity I'm going 9mm over .45 anyway.

quote:

Originally posted by cee_Kamp:

I do recall a thread here on this Forum, where someone had bought a box of the .45ACP SIG V-Crown premium self defense ammo, and had the same issue when loading the P220 magazines.
They then called SIG CS, and couldn't get a reasonable answer why SIG's premium self defense ammo, would not function in a SIG P220 pistol.

You make a fair point, and that might have been me although I didn't bother calling CS about it. I have a P245 and a P220 compact, and use both compact and full-size mags in them (I carry an 8-round full-size mag as a reload).

A few years back my department bought some of that Sig V-Crown 230gr ammo for guys to use for qualifications on personally owned backup guns. You can imagine how pissed I was when I tried to load Sig branded ammo into my factory Sig mags on range day and it wouldn't fit. Turns out it fits in the Act-Mag branded full-size mags, but not my Sig factory compact mags, and the gun cycles it just fine so I was ultimately able to qualify with it, but that's some serious stupidity on Sig's part.

Thankfully I don't live in New York, and I load 99% of my own ammo, so bullet compatibility isn't a huge problem for me, but one definitely has to be careful with those wide-ogive hollowpoint factory loadings and don't go buying a case for your P220 until you test them first.

I'd be curious to know if your problem ammo would have worked in ACT-Mags like mine did.

Of the three you listed, I'd go w/ HK 45.

If weight and price aren't an issue, I also recommend CZ 97, which has a steel frame. They're out of production, becoming increasingly harder to find, and rising in price.

Now here's a sleeper recommendation: Sarsilmaz K2. You can get it in full size or compact. It has a steel frame and 14+1 capacity. It's currently on clearance at PSA. A couple weeks ago, its price dipped down to $369.99, but both full size & compact sizes are currently $399.99.

https://palmettostatearmory.co...stol-blk-k245bl.html

If you like the CZ 75 design, the K2 is based on that.

My only HK experience is with a USPc & HK45 with a silencer.
The USP belonged to my wife's boss & the HK45 was a range rental.

Both shot really well, but I shot better with her boss' P220ST

quote:

Now here's a sleeper recommendation: Sarsilmaz K2. You can get it in full size or compact. It has a steel frame and 14+1 capacity. It's currently on clearance at PSA. A couple weeks ago, its price dipped down to $369.99, but both full size & compact sizes are currently $399.99.

https://palmettostatearmory.co...stol-blk-k245bl.html

If you like the CZ 75 design, the K2 is based on that.

Now that would be a really interesting gun if it came in 10mm...

My choice. I also have a P220,M&P full size, and a 1911 full size to choose from.

I’d skip the P227 because it’s discontinued and therefore inherently harder to find parts and mags for. I’m biased towards HK because I’m an HK guy, but FN products are also top quality. So I’d say choose between the HK45 and FNX45 based on which one you prefer shooting. Give the USP45 a try too.

I no longer have any SIG P220's chambered in .45ACP.
Beautiful examples of solid stainless steel craftsmanship. But if they won't do what they were designed to do with any in spec SAAMI ammo, down the road they will go.

My only remaining SIG P220 is a SAO variant chambered in 10mm, which curiously does not exhibit the same very fussy ammo selection, bullet nose profile/shape/ogive difficulty.
It is one of the Lipsey's versions from the first factory production run, in natural stainless steel. It is not optics ready like the new legion's.

See my "Cut" at the left. I AM a sucker for SIG pistols with the full stainless frames and slides. German or USA manufactured. I like them all.
All of the 229/226 variants are double stack design, and with the flat front surface on the magazine tubes, they will never exhibit the issue that the single stack P220's have in .45ACP.