quote:

Originally posted by 10round:
It appears as though the holster "in dents" in the trigger guard.

The indentation for the trigger guard is a common feature of Kydex holsters like that and serves to provide a bit of retention. If it were going to cause a discharge, it would occur the first time a loaded pistol was holstered, and would have happened to me long ago. There’s no reason any part of a properly designed holster should contact the trigger, but even if it did put lateral pressure on the trigger doing that wouldn’t cause a discharge of a P320. Pushing on the side of the trigger, tab or no tab, doesn’t move the trigger to the rear, doesn’t disable the safety mechanisms, and doesn’t cause a discharge.

To keep things in perspective, Glock has been sued countless times for unintentional discharges. Most who have negligent discharges and who sue, would never admit to any fault.

The SigMechanic videos are great at explaining all the redundant mechanical safeties as part of the new
(post drop test) design. Alone the trigger redesign fixed the drop test issue but Sig completely reworked many parts including the striker safety to insure the trigger MUST be pulled for the gun to discharge a round.

Yes, and I think it may be quite a long time before these apocryphal stories are not given undue attention. I believe none of these spontaneous discharge stories, and that goes in spades for the post-drop test version of the P320.

These stories about the P320 "just going off" get a lot of attention, and they all share something- not a single one of these stories has been proven to be true.

"Dozens of people spontaneously combust every year, it's just not widely reported."

Just a green little globule where the Sig used to be...

quote:

Originally posted by sigfreund:
The indentation for the trigger guard is a common feature of Kydex holsters like that and serves to provide a bit of retention. If it were going to cause a discharge, it would occur the first time a loaded pistol was holstered, and would have happened to me long ago.

I have such a holster myself, and my own 320 has never "gone off," despite being in and out of it countless times. The holster would have to be incredibly poorly designed or made to do that.
I do take an extra precaution, the same as with my double-action pistols. Before going out for the day, I put the gun in the holster first, with the muzzle pointed away from myself, then the holster over my belt/in my pants. (AIWB/clip)

And doesn't the P365 use basically the same mechanism, just smaller? It is a wildly popular gun. (I recently bought one myself.) Why isn't it "just going off?"

I have a blade tech holster for my P320 and have probably drawn, fired and re-holstered during two 4 day defensive handgun classes something like 5-600 times.. and never had an actual accidental discharge.... but that does not mean the guy in video did not....

I'm still trying to figure out if what Sig found out about the pistol's firing pin and his probably reholstering fast is what caused the problem.

quote:

I'm still trying to figure out if what Sig found out about the pistol's firing pin and his probably reholstering fast is what caused the problem.

That should read "What this guy in the video says Sig found out"

In the video he said he holstered and then raised his arms to the surrender position. The discharge occurred between those two actions which would indicate something attached to his body was also contacting the trigger and the act of raising his arms caused the pistol to fire. In other words, the pistol functioned as intended: the trigger was pulled and the weapon fired. I noticed he had video from what I assume was the match, but the video didn’t include the incident.

Max Michel, Lena Miculek, Daniel Horner and Phil Strader all have thousands of draws/re-holsters/rounds downrange with P320’s, yet none of them have experienced the pistol spontaneously discharging. Seems if it was a problem it would have happened with one of them by now.

As to LEO’s having an issue it most likely is just the officers being complacent/careless. It may be an issue with the holster. Some have admitted using a holster for a different firearm. When we switched to striker fired pistols my department specified a change to the holster so that it completely enclosed the trigger guard (some duty holsters leave a bit of the rear of the trigger guard exposed). It could also be as simple as wearing a set of keys in front or behind the holster which migrate into the holster as the officer is holstering their pistol. The pistol goes off, keys fall back into position and officer claims pistol went off on its own.

quote:

some duty holsters leave a bit of the rear of the trigger guard exposed

Yep, typically holsters for guns with full-sized lights attached (X300/TLR-1/etc.)

But it's not just duty holsters... It's a factor with any holster for one of the bigger lights.

The holsters have to include a large diameter "tunnel" at the level of the trigger guard for the relatively larger cylindrical light to travel through, so the resulting gap at the top of the holster leaves part of the trigger guard exposed.

quote:

Originally posted by bonanacroin:
As to LEO’s having an issue it most likely is just the officers being complacent/careless. It may be an issue with the holster. Some have admitted using a holster for a different firearm.

I could be wrong, but I remember in one of those "lawsuits," one officer threw a subcompact into her purse without a holster and it went off. That's another one of those stories that I don't put much stock into since that's negligence. I do wish Sig would offer more guns with the manual safety (especially the AXG frames) to 100% put that fear into the back of the mind. Besides, I've transitioned into pistols that have a 1911-like frame safety and miss not having a place to put my dominant thumb onto for extra leverage. It's killed most Walther full size guns since my right thumb keeps the slide released in the down position.

Howdy! I have yet to see any report of alleged P320 spontaneous firing which is credible.

With it's particular emphases upon draw speed and maintenance of continuous mental focus throughout a set of repetitive strings of fire, Steel Challenge-style shooting tends to instil rushed gunhandling habits, to include racing back to the holster. Back in the 80's I shot a lot of steel, and I thus picked up that bad habit as well. I had to unlearn it.

-Bruce

quote:

Originally posted by sigarms229:

quote:

then they'll also go off all by themselves sitting on a counter, in a safe, on a headboard, etc.

Exactly! I have an upstairs safe and a downstairs safe, both with P320s with one in the chamber and neither have gone off. 4+ years and no discharges.

Well maybe it did while you were out.....

quote:

Originally posted by 92fstech:
This is interesting. It appears to be a well-witnessed and documented event.

I wish there was more information about what Sig found to be the problem. He says that they told him it was a issue with the firing pin return spring...there is no such part in the P320.

I, like most here, believe the issue is operator error. However, he said SIG SAUER told him there is an issue with the firing pin return spring. If the SIG SAUER rep. never told him that, you would think this viral video with 284K views would have been pulled by now and he would be getting a letter from their Attorney. This conversation is easily verified since every call is recorded.
There is a big difference between "send it in and we'll take a look" and "it's a problem with a firing pin return spring".

quote:

Originally posted by Jupiter:

quote:

Originally posted by 92fstech:
This is interesting. It appears to be a well-witnessed and documented event.

I wish there was more information about what Sig found to be the problem. He says that they told him it was a issue with the firing pin return spring...there is no such part in the P320.

I, like most here, believe the issue is operator error. However, he said SIG SAUER told him there is an issue with the firing pin return spring. If the SIG SAUER rep. never told him that, you would think this viral video with 284K views would have been pulled by now and he would be getting a letter from their Attorney. This conversation is easily verified since every call is recorded.
There is a big difference between "send it in and we'll take a look" and "it's a problem with a firing pin return spring".

I'm not saying they didn't find a problem with the gun, just that he doesn't really give any useful detail about what that problem was, and he blames the problem on a part that isn't even in the official parts list for the gun. Either the Sig rep he spoke to used the wrong terminology, he is misquoting the Sig rep, or he's making it up. Regardless, the information he provided is pretty worthless when it comes to identifying what the alleged problem with the gun actually is.

quote:

Originally posted by Grayguns:
Howdy! I have yet to see any report of alleged P320 spontaneous firing which is credible.

With it's particular emphases upon draw speed and maintenance of continuous mental focus throughout a set of repetitive strings of fire, Steel Challenge-style shooting tends to instil rushed gunhandling habits, to include racing back to the holster. Back in the 80's I shot a lot of steel, and I thus picked up that bad habit as well. I had to unlearn it.

-Bruce

I will agree with this gentleman.

I had the same problem in a 4 day class I would take every year... about the 3rd time I did this I realized there was no reason to rush back to the holster....