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Not me... Not yet... I say this not because I hate Glock (I actually admire several things about Glock pistols), but because I've never found any sort of polymer in any product that I believe will last through many years of service, and no polymer product I've ever seen (as of yet) will ever turn into an heirloom piece which could be passed down through generations. I honestly wretch at the thought of willing a Glock to one of my children in the event of my passing. I've spent a good deal of my career working in plastics processing and engineering, and know how crucial and relative resin temperatures, pressures, re-grind content, etc. are to the expected service life of the component. However, the fact is that even if molded in ideal conditions, most polymers are certain to eventually fail, especially when subjected to the shock and load values presented by a pistol. Have any of you ever seen someone sit down on an aging polymer chair that splintered from the sudden load and stress, even though it held up for years under the same conditions? Polymers oxidize like everything else, and the elements which once made them pliable, strong and resilient are emitted (depleted through a process loosely termed as "gassing-off") from them continuously over time... leading to weakness, brittleness and ultimate failure. You don't see polymers used in spacecraft or satellites, because it's well known that polymers gas-off and fail even faster in vacuum and temperature extremes (the vacuum "sucks" the gasses out even faster), in fact most polymers would melt or gas-off completely after a very short time when exposed to direct sunlight in the vacuum of space due to the inability of vacuum to dissipate heat into the nearby surroundings... and in cold conditions (well, space is extremely cold in the shade) they become as brittle as ice. I'm not suggesting that any of you will ever be trying to use your Glock in space, mind you. The military avoids polymers like the plague as well, except in non-critical componentry... Why? I think we all know, don't we? 40 years from now, would I pick up a Glock built today and have the guts to fire it? Not a chance... Would I fire a Sig built today in 40 years? YES! (with exception of the polymer framed Mosquito) Now, I do admire Glock's engineering and design (I love the CPM-10V material used in the slides, BTW); if Glock started making some models without polymer as a major component, I'd seriously consider getting one. "The Borg" told Picard and Janeway that they, too, would be assimilated... "Resistance is Futile" and all that good goobley-goo... I refuse to be assimilated by "The Glock" (so far, at least). I, too, will go kickin' and screamin' with phasers blastin' until the bitter end.... It'd sure make it alot easier to see myself getting a Glock if they actually made something from materials which give me confidence... or even did at least one thing better than any Sig I already have... Plastic belongs on Airsoft, IMHO. (Edit: for accuracy and content)This message has been edited. Last edited by: CRStout, | |||
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Nope | |||
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| Imagination and focus become reality |
Glocks have been around since 1983. Are you saying that the Glocks from the mid-80s are no longer functional?  | |||
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No, but they certainly will be at some point... As I suggested earlier, I assume that almost any Glock that reaches the age of 40 years would certainly be a gamble to pick up and fire. Is anyone here still shooting a 1983 Glock? Please tell us if you are... I'm sure we'd all like to hear how that 27 year old polymer is holding up. I don't actually expect many to chime in on that, as I suspect that most Glocks of that age are already de-commissioned from service... kind of like a Bic lighter when it runs out of fuel? | |||
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"At some point in your life, you will buy a Glock and secretly fall in love with it. You'll fondle it late at night and engage in the Love that Dares not Speak it's Name." I would love to stiff Para on this one and I could have until I ran across an ex-Nebraska State Patrol 21. I too am an ex-Nebraskan. But, there will be no late night fondles or unspoken love. (Though I do love Österreich and would move there in a heartbeat!) This thing feels like a brick in my small hands and it is headed straight for the safe unfired by me. | |||
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| Imagination and focus become reality |
That 27 year old polymer is probably holding up just fine. You must have watched Die Hard 2 one too many times. Yeah, that's a Glock 7 and it's made out of porcelain and can't be seen by the metal detectors. | |||
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| Peace through superior firepower  |
Damn, Glocks have a remarkable record of durability, I mean, phenomenal. And yet, you're actually comparing these pistols to BIC lighters?? I've seen Glocks, range rental guns, that have had so many rounds through them, and were so ill-cared for that their bores were lacquered white. Show me one shred of evidence of any sort of deterioration with the polymer used by Glock for their pistols and magazines. Let's see it. | |||
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Member |
Here is my humble contribution to this epically massive thread. I like the green ones. ___________________________________________________________________________ "Why is self-control, autonomy, such a threat to authority? Because the person who controls himself, who is his own master, has no need for an authority to be his master. This, then, renders authority unemployed. What is he to do if he cannot control others? To be sure, he could mind his own business. But this is a fatuous answer, for those who are satisfied to mind their own business do not aspire to become authorities." | |||
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Um, isn't everything "certain to eventually fail"? That's pretty much a universal principle, if I'm not mistaken. Since we are equating the polymer used by Glock with that in plastic lawn chairs and Bic lighters, shouldn't we then also equate the alloys used in metal guns to the alloys in, say, a pie plate or a coffee can? If so, then I should be equally worried about my metal framed guns. The polymer frame of my 19 year old Glock 19, carried daily and fired often, looks, feels, and performs the same as the frame of my 1 year old Glock 23 in spite of the fact that it has reached the half life of your projected 40 years. Where did you get that number, anyway? Still, I'll be sure to check my G19 in another 21 years for...brittleness. If it were to fail, I know that Glock would replace it in a heartbeat. "Only a fool or a fraud talks tough or romantically about war." - John McCain | |||
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Truckin' On |
I too was in the plastics industry for many years. There are polymers, and then there are polymers. You cannot compare the nylon base of glocks to the much weaker materials that make up your plastic chair and BIC examples. They're just different animals altogether. I can tell you that the toughest material we ever worked with was that which olin/winchester uses to make its shotgun shells. ____________ Μολὼν Λαβέ 01 03 04 14 16 18 | |||
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Too tough to work into a pistol frame? Or just too flexible? ___________________________________________________________________________ "Why is self-control, autonomy, such a threat to authority? Because the person who controls himself, who is his own master, has no need for an authority to be his master. This, then, renders authority unemployed. What is he to do if he cannot control others? To be sure, he could mind his own business. But this is a fatuous answer, for those who are satisfied to mind their own business do not aspire to become authorities." | |||
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quote from Parabellum: "Damn, Glocks have a remarkable record of durability, I mean, phenomenal. And yet, you're actually comparing these pistols to BIC lighters?? I've seen Glocks, range rental guns, that have had so many rounds through them, and were so ill-cared for that their bores were lacquered white. Show me one shred of evidence of any sort of deterioration with the polymer used by Glock for their pistols and magazines. Let's see it." OK, I looked around and found several instances of frame cracking on Glocks. I tried to reply in this thread including links to these, but apparently those replies will need approval? Please look for yourselves with a search for "Glock frame crack". You will find several instances in these results with evidence of exactly this right up at the top. These sure look like classic cases of polymer failure to me. But then again, my knowlege of plastics has been called into question here... you are welcome to seek a second opinion. After seeing some of those photos, I am even more determined not to buy one... and my suspicions of what will happen to an aging Glock (and it's magazines, as well) seem to be confirmed. Sorry  ...they do in fact appear to be disposable... much like a BIC.Parabellum, (or any admin in this area) I'm sure you can find these un-published post replies including links and approve them. Would you please do me that favor? Thanks!This message has been edited. Last edited by: CRStout, | |||
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After many many guns I bought a G-22 and yes I love it. I'm not sure how many guns I own, is that enough ? | |||
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Down the Rabbit Hole |
Considering all the aging Glocks out there, you better find more than "several instances"! You better find an epidemic. I can do a search for any of the finest guns on this planet and find "several instances"! You've got to be kidding if that's all you can come up with. Diligentia, Vis, Celeritas "People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf." -- George Orwell | |||
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| Peace through superior firepower |
There's only about 4 million Glocks out there. Seriously, isn't that the latest production figure? Slightly over 4 million? Stout, the reason you can't post that link is because that website is not to be mentioned here, and that has nothing to do with whatever junk what's-his-face came up with. Now look, don't shit on my thread. Don't buy a Glock, mmkay? There, now you're all set. | |||
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Jupiter... have you done the search I suggested as well? The results looked as though they would seemingly keep me reading for hours... The resulting links from my search produced MANY, MANY results... I was only referring to those which I visited... please feel free to peruse them on your own, since I can't actually give you the links here. I don't personally care if you bought, plan to buy, or hate Glocks... I was merely responding to a request to produce evidence that supported my (in my own opinion, a well formed hypothesis based upon what I know as fact) assertion that all Glocks will eventually fail... and it appears that my 40 year prediction was a bit on the short side, actually.. Why is it so hard to accept that an engineer's assessment of the Glock polymer frame is unfavorable and yet seemingly correct? See, I'm faced with this often, that my hypothesis without actually conducting research is usually correct... call it a curse, or a blessing, whatever... some would would attribute it to experience and knowlege. I'm still not buying a Glock, sorry... | |||
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Certified All Positions |
The only reason I won't buy a Glock is because I've already got 3. I might by one accidentally though. Arc. ______________________________ "Like a bitter weed, I'm a bad seed"- Johnny Cash "I'm a loner, Dottie. A rebel." - Pee Wee Herman Rode hard, put away wet. RIP JHM "You're a junkyard dog." - Lupe Flores. RIP | |||
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| Imagination and focus become reality |
Ahhh......Methinks there is more here than meets the eye. | |||
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Parabellum, No offense was ever intended, and I certainly wouldn't "shit on your thread" for any reason... and that's far from my intention here. At least give me some credit for what I know and have done for a living for many years... I know polymers... Glock frame and magazine failures are not uncommon, as I've learned at your request to provide evidence in support of my hypothetical generalizations... these generalizations have become more specific and educated now; I have found that evidence and I thank you for that... It is no longer conjecture nor speculation on my part. With Kindest Regards... | |||
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| Peace through superior firepower |
Sorry, but I simply do not believe that. Don't buy a Glock. Really. Just don't do it. OK, all better now. | |||
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