Color me weird. I've been shooting defensive handguns since 1962. Who knows how many rounds - tens or hundred of thousands of rounds. I have NEVER had a factory premium defensive round fail to ignite in ANY gun. Reloads, cheap factory practice loads, .22 rimfires - yes. Different story.
The last thing on the planet I worrry about is a quality factory SD round not going bang. Can/does it happen? Sure. Can a jet engine fall off a 737 and hit me on the head? Sure. Tap-rack-bang, second strike? Shit, doesn't work - go to the backup gun. You DO carry a BUG don't you?
Everbody has the right to their own preferences and opinions. I carry/have carried revolvers, 1911's an S&W semi, Sigs and my new G34. They're all friggin tools. SHTF - Toss me a police surplus S&W M10 with a decent +P .38 Spl load and I'll be happy. Jeez.
To each his own is fine. But it doesn't mean that the other guys choice sucks.
______________________ An expert is one who knows more and more about less and less until he knows absolutely everything about nothing. --Nicholas Murray Butler
December 22, 2012, 07:24 PM
submoa
quote:
Originally posted by Skull-1:
quote:
Originally posted by enidpd804: 1. Click (Instead of Bang) 2. Tap 3. Rack 4. Bang (or ready)
I don't even think about it. Is there another way?
That's easy to do when you aren't shot. Much harder with one hand or in a close quarter fight with someone beating your head in. Just saying.
Ahhh, now it makes sense...in a close quarter fight with someone beating your head in you just pull the trigger again after waiting a few seconds...
Got it
December 22, 2012, 07:34 PM
parabellum
quote:
Originally posted by Nipper: Color me weird. I've been shooting defensive handguns since 1962. Who knows how many rounds - tens or hundred of thousands of rounds. I have NEVER had a factory premium defensive round fail to ignite in ANY gun. Reloads, cheap factory practice loads, .22 rimfires - yes. Different story.
I've had one- a CorBon 115 grain +P+ 9mm round. This was many years ago, and it is the point at which I stopped trusting CorBon ammunition. Maybe that's not fair, but there it is.
December 22, 2012, 08:02 PM
enidpd804
quote:
Originally posted by Skull-1:
quote:
Originally posted by enidpd804: 1. Click (Instead of Bang) 2. Tap 3. Rack 4. Bang (or ready)
I don't even think about it. Is there another way?
That's easy to do when you aren't shot. Much harder with one hand or in a close quarter fight with someone beating your head in. Just saying.
Unless you practice it-which I do. I understand what you're saying but if you have it in your head that all you have to do is pull the trigger again, that's what you'll do when you have some other kind of stoppage under stress.
Ahhh, now it makes sense...in a close quarter fight with someone beating your head in you just pull the trigger again after waiting a few seconds...
Got it
Now you're just being a jerk. You wait on the *RANGE* just like you do anytime you have a misfire on the *RANGE* to see if it goes on its own. In defensive training/practice or a fight you wouldn't do that. Grow up. Seriously.
December 22, 2012, 09:01 PM
Skull-1
quote:
Originally posted by enidpd804: Unless you practice it-which I do. I understand what you're saying but if you have it in your head that all you have to do is pull the trigger again, that's what you'll do when you have some other kind of stoppage under stress.
Agreed, which is why I practice two-hand and one-hand failure-to-fire drills regularly...however...when that isn't a choice I prefer to have the OPTION to squeeze the trigger a dozen times if I have to. Glocks and some Smiths don't let me which is one reason why I will never own one.
December 22, 2012, 09:19 PM
TribuSig
!This message has been edited. Last edited by: TribuSig,
December 22, 2012, 09:47 PM
zingo
After a couple years of looking at this post and thinking I would never surrender, it happened. First a G20, not because I wanted a Glock, because I wanted a 10mm. I tolerated the fact that it was a Glock.
Yesterday I came home with a G19. It makes me feel kind of funny in my pants.
This secret has been tearing me up.
December 22, 2012, 09:51 PM
parabellum
{hugs}
It's OK to be you.
December 22, 2012, 10:04 PM
Riley
So you'll never carry or rely on a rifle for self defense? I've fired many rifles but I've yet to find one that has second strike ability. Such as the AR, bolt actions, lever guns, pump etc.
Tap, track, bang.
Do not send me to a heaven where there are no dogs. Step Up or Stand Aside: Support the Troops ! Expectations are premeditated disappointments.
December 22, 2012, 10:08 PM
Sugarwater
quote:
Originally posted by zingo: After a couple years of looking at this post and thinking I would never surrender, it happened. First a G20, not because I wanted a Glock, because I wanted a 10mm. I tolerated the fact that it was a Glock.
Yesterday I came home with a G19. It makes me feel kind of funny in my pants.
This secret has been tearing me up.
Unfortunately, this post cracked me up. But, I totally understand about not wanting a Glock, then getting one and now wanting/getting another. I shot a friends Glock and found that I love the Gen4 17, so I bought one...Though I EDC a P228, I really want a Gen4 G19.
December 22, 2012, 10:35 PM
Skull-1
quote:
Originally posted by Riley: So you'll never carry or rely on a rifle for self defense? I've fired many rifles but I've yet to find one that has second strike ability. Such as the AR, bolt actions, lever guns, pump etc.
Tap, track, bang.
I can't carry a rifle for self defense so I don't.
The only time I will be using one that way is an end of the world scenario or a riot and I don't intend to let them get close enough for it to matter. If anyone is close enough to grab my rifle I expect it will be empty by which time I would be at pistols and bayos range any way...
A handgun is a close quarter weapon as a general rule. Tapping, racking and firing is great but will not always be a viable option depending on the scenario.
December 22, 2012, 11:13 PM
Riley
Good point. My other concern would be a squib if the round does fire the second time.
Anyway, I like both Sig and Glock but prefer Glock. For me, among the things that can go wrong, second strike isn't a deal breaker for me.
Do not send me to a heaven where there are no dogs. Step Up or Stand Aside: Support the Troops ! Expectations are premeditated disappointments.
December 23, 2012, 01:08 AM
soggy_spinout
I suppose Merry Christmas to me. Despite my recent foray into 1911s, I simply can't stray too far from the roost. In spite of all the recent frenzied madness I too contribute to this ballistic economic insanity (besides, the boss gave me a discount I just couldn't pass up on). The latest, in Gen4 flavor:
December 23, 2012, 04:08 AM
Redford1970
While Sig is still the only brand I own two of, I made the plunge less than a a week ago. I now have a Glock 36. Possibly the only model slim enough to fit my hands.
Most of you know this is a 6+1 shot .45 ACP.
My first impression was "What a horrific trigger!" It was marked at 5.5 lbs. pull but measured 8.0 out of the box. One cleaning and 200 rounds later, it was still over 7#. Despite this, I am surprisingly accurate with it.
Yesterday, I installed a Ghost Ranger 4.5 connector and did the 25 cent trigger job (Flitz). First, what an easy gun to work on. Second, the measured result isn't very close to 4.5 #. Anyone know if that's only when you add a spring kit? I've no plans to do that as this will be a carry gun.
I'm gonna give this 150 -200 rounds before final judgement.I already like it better than the Nano trigger. That's mushy and has a long reset by comparison.
We're at 5.75# and hopefully falling. Otherwise a small investment worth the learning experience. My first full detail strip.
This Glock rocks.
December 23, 2012, 05:15 AM
LongJohnSilver
The only way I would own a Glock is if someone gave me one and then I would sell it and put the money towards another Sig.
December 23, 2012, 07:59 AM
soggy_spinout
quote:
Originally posted by Redford1970: While Sig is still the only brand I own two of, I made the plunge less than a a week ago. I now have a Glock 36. Possibly the only model slim enough to fit my hands.
Most of you know this is a 6+1 shot .45 ACP.
My first impression was "What a horrific trigger!" It was marked at 5.5 lbs. pull but measured 8.0 out of the box. One cleaning and 200 rounds later, it was still over 7#. Despite this, I am surprisingly accurate with it.
Yesterday, I installed a Ghost Ranger 4.5 connector and did the 25 cent trigger job (Flitz). First, what an easy gun to work on. Second, the measured result isn't very close to 4.5 #. Anyone know if that's only when you add a spring kit? I've no plans to do that as this will be a carry gun.
I'm gonna give this 150 -200 rounds before final judgement.I already like it better than the Nano trigger. That's mushy and has a long reset by comparison.
We're at 5.75# and hopefully falling. Otherwise a small investment worth the learning experience. My first full detail strip.
This Glock rocks.
Welcome my apprentice ...you've discovered some of the truths about the Dark Side. Yes they most certainly are some of the easiest guns to work on. No, changing out the connector alone will not a 4.5# pull appear. If you seek a true 4.5# trigger pull, a very cautious swapping of various springs for ones with lighter tension is usually the next phase. But there's usually a rub with that if you go too far; go whole in on swapping all the available springs and you can compromise the reliability of the firearm...or end up with something considerably less than 4.5 lbs of pull (and significantly less 'safe' as a result). I have a coworker who recently discovered how easy it was to overdo such mods on his FDE G19. Sub 2# trigger with no thumb or grip safety...not a wise result.
December 23, 2012, 09:21 AM
1lowlife
quote:
Originally posted by LongJohnSilver: The only way I would own a Glock is if someone gave me one and then I would sell it and put the money towards another Sig.
Says the guy with parrot shit on his shoulder..
December 23, 2012, 10:31 AM
spdski
quote:
Originally posted by soggy_spinout: I suppose Merry Christmas to me. Despite my recent foray into 1911s, I simply can't stray too far from the roost. In spite of all the recent frenzied madness I too contribute to this ballistic economic insanity (besides, the boss gave me a discount I just couldn't pass up on). The latest, in Gen4 flavor:
You go out and shoot it yet? My cousin and I just each bought a 34 gen 4. We shot them yesterday. I straight up love and it's my favorite pistol now. So versatile and it just points so well!
Even shooting quite fast and transitioning between different targets everything was on paper at 25 yards and with slow aimed shots we were consistently hitting small targets (like a tree root sticking out of the cliff/berm) at 65+ yards without problem.
December 23, 2012, 12:52 PM
Skull-1
quote:
Originally posted by Riley: Good point. My other concern would be a squib if the round does fire the second time.
Anyway, I like both Sig and Glock but prefer Glock. For me, among the things that can go wrong, second strike isn't a deal breaker for me.
Fair 'nuff.
As long as what you carry gives you the confidence, combined with skill and smarts, to survive an encounter that's all that matters.
But, I totally understand about not wanting a Glock, then getting one and now wanting/getting another. I shot a friends Glock and found that I love the Gen4 17, so I bought one...Though I EDC a P228, I really want a Gen4 G19.
...you've discovered some of the truths about the Dark Side. Yes they most certainly are some of the easiest guns to work on. No, changing out the connector alone will not a 4.5# pull appear. If you seek a true 4.5# trigger pull, a very cautious swapping of various springs for ones with lighter tension is usually the next phase. But there's usually a rub with that if you go too far; go whole in on swapping all the available springs and you can compromise the reliability of the firearm...or end up with something considerably less than 4.5 lbs of pull (and significantly less 'safe' as a result). I have a coworker who recently discovered how easy it was to overdo such mods on his FDE G19. Sub 2# trigger with no thumb or grip safety...not a wise result.