I am looking to buy my first Sig P320 . Looking at a PRO full size with heavy grey frame. I keep reading that it's not good for duty gun because frame is weaker (???) . Any truth to this?

quote:

Originally posted by MikeSm:
I am looking to buy my first Sig P320 . Looking at a PRO full size with heavy grey frame. I keep reading that it's not good for duty gun because frame is weaker (???) . Any truth to this?

That sounds ridiculous. SIG pistols are good to go. The "heavy grey frame" is likely a reference to the tungsten-infused frame which to my knowledge has not exhibited any signs of weakness. You'll be fine.

Sig states specifically that the TXG frame is not for carry or duty use.

Before they began offering them publicly, an aftermarket provider began experimenting with texturing the TXG grip, using a laser. I enquired about getting one, and was told that the failure rate was high, something like 9 out of ten of them weren't working out, due to air inclusions and other issues with the frame.

In time, that provider did begin, and currently offers their textured grip for sale. They perfected the process, and their product is very good. I have several, including their prototype.

That Sig provides the warning (some say it's for liability), and others have found issues, should make one at least consider why.

I have several of the TXG modules on full size pistols in 9mm and .40. I like them. They are heavy, especially compared to the other sig modules (and aftermarket modules, such as the Wilson frame). Add the internal tungsten weight, and the mag external mag well flare, and it's a bit heavier.

For a competition pistol, it's great. If its something that you have to carry on a belt with other gear on long shifts, maybe not as much.

It's interesting that Sig puts the TXG grip on their Legion, which is their top of the line P320 offering, and then advises not to use it for duty carry. I've not seen one crack, though I can see how the internal use of tungsten in the grip module might cause a weakness or lead to stress risers. If that possibility exists, is that the module. you want in a gunfight?

quote:

Originally posted by sns3guppy:
Sig states specifically that the TXG frame is not for carry or duty use.

Before they began offering them publicly, an aftermarket provider began experimenting with texturing the TXG grip, using a laser. I enquired about getting one, and was told that the failure rate was high, something like 9 out of ten of them weren't working out, due to air inclusions and other issues with the frame.

In time, that provider did begin, and currently offers their textured grip for sale. They perfected the process, and their product is very good. I have several, including their prototype.

That Sig provides the warning (some say it's for liability), and others have found issues, should make one at least consider why.

I have several of the TXG modules on full size pistols in 9mm and .40. I like them. They are heavy, especially compared to the other sig modules (and aftermarket modules, such as the Wilson frame). Add the internal tungsten weight, and the mag external mag well flare, and it's a bit heavier.

For a competition pistol, it's great. If its something that you have to carry on a belt with other gear on long shifts, maybe not as much.

It's interesting that Sig puts the TXG grip on their Legion, which is their top of the line P320 offering, and then advises not to use it for duty carry. I've not seen one crack, though I can see how the internal use of tungsten in the grip module might cause a weakness or lead to stress risers. If that possibility exists, is that the module. you want in a gunfight?

Good info. I was unaware that they did not recommend it for carry/duty use.
But since you asked the question, it is exactly the frame “I” would want to have in a gunfight.

I can't answer that question for anyone else: only you can say what you want with you in a gunfight. I can say what I want, and that's something that is reliable. If the TXG frame is what you want, so be it.

A well-known highly qualified poster on this forum has often said that reliability in a mechanical firearm is never a guarantee and should never be an expectation; any firearm can fail, jam, or malfunction. It's equally true that numerous factors from lack of lubrication to poor design can reduce reliability.

If I am going to carry a firearm, it's implied that I'm prepared to be in a fight with that firearm (otherwise, why carry it). Any component of that firearm which is known to be less than reliable, or forecast to be, or for which a warning exists, should be given consideration.

Sig isn't advertising cracked TXG frames. Such events aren't a known thing online or in the community. At the same time, Sig has a well-documented and well-established (recent) history of covering up and lying about their product. When they do say the component is not for carry or duty use, might it be that Sig is aware of an issue that is not widely known or discussed? It maybe just for their own liability: if Sig says don't use it and the component does fail, the Sig has already done their part.

I run half a dozen of these frames. I like them. But they're not necessarily what I want in a gunfight.

The TXG is heavier, and does tend to "absorb" recoil better. Whether this is critical in a gunfight is debatable. It does allow shorter time between shots, perhaps on target ("split times"), but it also may contribute to longer times transitioning between targets, or getting the pistol on targetd. It's got more intertia when moving, more possibility of moving past the target. The frame has less flex to it. It's not homogenous. It has other material included, which may weaken the frame. It's long-term strength is unknown. It's a matter of whether the benefit of the weight can be balanced against the potential for a crack or failure.

Where is dehughes now?

If you really like the gun (and I do,) get a Wilson grip for duty carry and keep the tungsten one for target shooting. Wilson grips are inexpensive enough.

There are cops carrying the Legion frame on duty guns, but that's obviously very anecdotal. I would consider one of the aluminum AXG frames as a middle ground between polymer and the tungsten-infused Legion frame.

quote:

Originally posted by Keystoner:
Where is dehughes now?

I don't get it. Are you calling him out? I 100% agree with him that it sounds ridiculous, and I see no "warning" apparent on the to of the line P320 offering page, the X5 Legion:

https://www.sigsauer.com/p320-xfive-legion.html

or on the TXG Grip page:

https://www.sigsauer.com/p320-...module-assembly.html

that says "do not carry this pistol for duty of self defense". It absolutely baffles me if that's the case.

It makes perfect sense to me that someone wouldn't believe that SIG is selling something like that, that goes on their absolute top of the line pistol, ownership of which literally gets you into a cool kids club, but it's faulty and not able to actually be carried.

FWIW, one of the things that’s confusing about the P320 “frame” is that it’s not what’s being discussed in this thread.

From the NRA Firearms Sourcebook, 2006, pages 426, 450:
“frame See receiver”
“receiver The basic unit of a firearm that houses the firing and breech mechanism and to which the barrel and stock are assembled. In revolvers, pistols and break-open guns, it is called the ‘frame.’”

Like other firearms receivers, pistol frames are usually the serial-numbered part and therefore are the gun for legal purposes.

The “frame” of the P320 is therefore the somewhat U-shaped trough of metal that holds the trigger and sear mechanism and has the rail tabs for attachment of the slide assembly. It is also configured so that the grip module is affixed to it and held in position by the takedown lever. SIG factory literature such as their armorer manuals calls that serial-numbered part by its alternative name of receiver, but by traditional convention it’s also the frame.

The part of the P320 that shooters hold onto when shooting, but which is not the serial-numbered frame or receiver, is called the “grip module” by SIG. One of the advantages of the P320 over guns like the Glock and its many imitators is that the grip module is not legally the gun and therefore can be swapped at will without any legal restrictions. And hence this thread.