quote:

Originally posted by OTD:
That’s OK bac. My prefered P210 is a Swiss Army model from the late 50’s which I transformed into a competition gun similar to a -6 except for the trigger stop. It’s probably the roughest “plow” SIG ever made because it looks like the monday work of an unmotivated trainee, but I’m attached to it because I went through several competition with it for the last 25 years but I would not claim it to be better or worse then anything else made before or later. Others, infact all others are much nicer made, but not really better but I still prefer mine for emotional reasons and the success I had with it. So there is nothing wrong with a preference.
Here is a general thought. Annoying is the word “better” in connection with a production date a P210 was made. “Better” means that it would be possible increase an annual scoring average by 1 score point in sanctioned matches, just with a random pistol made in a certain period. This is a hocus pocus for the motivation of the relegations league but really difficult to achieve when somebody has an established score already.
If you want to have a real result for “better”, one has to compare the deviation of the measured real tolerances for every production lot made. For one frame alone it’s 247 operations not only slide to frame fit or a trigger pull that can be adjusted anyway. These area nice feature for repeatable performance but not the key feature since muzzle lock, battery fit and impact bearing, transfer plate and most importantly the tension of the recoil spring have an identical importance which cannot be tested with gut feeling, especially not on pistol which are kept untouched for pride and pleasure.
What we are doing is judging “better” based on the pattern of the depth of roughness in the finis or the way a radius was cut which can be best compared to a women’s make up skills. The fact that she is can apply it well does not mean she has good qualities regardless of her age. So if you have a nicely made, vintage P210 in your closet and are proud of it does not mean the pistol would outperform the Legend of the guy next to your lane. This performance is all that matters in shooting.

I get that. I said from the start that the accuracy was no better. In fact, the P210 Legend Target I had shot just as nice as any of my Swiss models.

As much as I wouldn’t buy a cheapened American P210, I suspect accuracy is similar as well. I’ve handled a few, but never shot one. I don’t buy any American Sig junk.

While I certainly like my Swiss and German models , I am actually quite fond of "My American SIG Junk"

quote:

Originally posted by BullBarrel:
While I certainly like my Swiss and German models , I am actually quite fond of "My American SIG Junk"

To each their own, I guess. Glad you like them.

The new P210 is definitely aimed at the less demanding buyer at its price point. It seems like a decent gun, but it’s not something I’d buy. I don’t need a Sig “P210” with a Sig Sauer locking block. From what I understand, they shoot very well, but so does my $1100 CZ Tactical Sport.

Either way, a very nice collection...

quote:

The new P210 is definitely aimed at the less demanding buyer at its price point.

That is perhaps your opinion. I respect it, but I completely disagree with it.
(Of course, unless someone at SIG marketing department shared some info with you and told you just that.)

I certainly do not consider myself a '
LESS demanding buyer' (just the opposite in fact)

quote:

Originally posted by BullBarrel:
[QUOTE]
The new P210 is definitely aimed at the less demanding buyer at its price point.

That is perhaps your opinion. I respect it, but I completely disagree with it.
(Of course, unless someone at SIG marketing department shared some info with you and told you just that.)

I certainly do not consider myself a 'LESS demanding buyer' (just the opposite in fact)

.

quote:

Originally posted by BullBarrel:

quote:

Originally posted by BullBarrel:
[QUOTE]
The new P210 is definitely aimed at the less demanding buyer at its price point.

That is perhaps your opinion. I respect it, but I completely disagree with it.
(Of course, unless someone at SIG marketing department shared some info with you and told you just that.)

I certainly do not consider myself a 'LESS demanding buyer' (just the opposite in fact)

I said it’s aimed at a less demanding buyer. Those that want a $1400 gun to call a P210. I didn’t say other folks wouldn’t buy them. I respect your opinion too. If you like them, that’s great. To each their own.


Sig America doesn’t build high end stuff. They never have. The P210 is built to the standards of all the other stuff they make.

This is a pretty wild assumption based on heard information. In the real world of pistol shooting accuracy is a secondary issue because any good sport pistol of current make is able to hold the 10 ring of an international target with confidence regardless to the group size of a test target. If you shoot on this level grip ergonomy, trigger reach and preference for a trigger becomes more important then an illusive accuracy. If you cannot deal with a two stage trigger and the the trigger reach of the P210 the CZ is an option or visa versa. The Webley type (Not SIGSauer) barrel lock does not change anything to it’s worse. Infact it makes the pistol a more affordable option to a CZ sporter of the serious type or a competition grade X-5. The Webley lock is more of an improvement and I would not call the US version a P210 for that reason, P21x would be more appropriate but if marketing decides to overrule the opinion of P210 purists we have to live with the fact when it is the name that makes the profit. I doubt about SIGSauer USA building junk. I rather think us, who where willing the high price for the prestige to own a Swiss P210 are the fooled ones when it was possible to build the qualities of the P210 into a much cheaper new type of pistol. Well, SIG Switzerland has always had the mentality of a credit shark or a pharmacy and we should not blame the name of a beloved classic on a more affordable new product, because we were willing to play their pricing game. I therefor really recommend to everybody who want's to buy an expensive gun, find out what the quality is all people are raving about and dont let you fool by "feelings" or similar obscure observations about an illusive "quality" and learn about the reality in precision shooting. A good start is the world record group of Alexander Melentiev (longes standing shooting record), Jin Jong-Oh or Moritz Minder. It will give a good insight between hopes and realities in pistol shooting. Then take your P210, Legend or whatever and try to score a similar result at half the distance, 25m and better, in a competition agains others. I think this is the best way to exprience the qualities, pros and cons of a P210 and you did it a couple of times you will notice, that it does not matter anymore when it was made when a guy with a P220 is going to outshoot you. Things like that happens all the time.

quote:

Originally posted by BullBarrel:

To me the grouping of P210 test target is almost irrelevant. Shooting is done in a ransom rest. I will 'never' in my life shot as accurately anyway (or even remotely close to it) so if we are talking about a test target that is supposed to be present with a 'collector grade' pistol - as long as it is there, that's all I care about.

I am sorry, I do not see WHY you are making such a mistery about your factory target...

Is it that bad or what?

Are you ashamed?

Here are mine: P330473 and P322264... No fear, SIR!!!




<a href="http://s2.photobucket.com/user/Darimian/media/DSCN5042-Copie_zpsb54e78ed.jpg.html" target="_blank"><img src="https://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y3/Darimian/DSCN5042-Copie_zpsb54e78ed.jpg" border="0" alt="P210-6S HF Factory target photo DSCN5042-Copie_zpsb54e78ed.jpg"/></a>

https://i2.photobucket.com/alb...opie_zpsb54e78ed.jpg

Jeez, these are marvelous high-end P210-s posted above! They look very nice on the photos, but I never understood the purpose of collecting very expensive guns. If you consider them investments, the market is very small, so they are illiquid, i.e. hard to convert to cash quickly. Sure, the price goes up, but so very slowly, it is hard to even consider that for retired guys like myself.

I bought P210 American to shoot it, and I think it is a great gun. Without any tweaking, I won a couple service pistol matches with it already, and I could afford it. It is just as accurate as the Swiss P210 I shot many years ago abroad. For Camp Perry, I had an old accurized 92FS with its bluing worn off, and for IDPA, I used Glocks. So I don't get the "purist's" point of view of the P210 American.