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Grip consistency across pistol platforms and the potential usefulness of Talon grips Login/Join 
Ethics, antics,
and ballistics
Picture of Dtech
posted
Lately, I've been shooting my polymer frame pistols more frequently than anything with a metal frame including my 5" PPQ, Gen5 G19/G26, and 4.25" M&P 2.0. I tend to shoot 200-300 rounds per session and I'm trying to narrow down a reoccurring issue while trying to keep my grip and grip pressure consistent across all the different pistols I shoot. I am finding more and more often that most of the polymer pistols except so far the M&P (likely due to the more aggressive grip texture) are tending to cause a sore spot in the webbing of my right hand just to the right of the joint of my thumb and hand about the size of a pencil eraser. Depending on if the session tends towards the higher round count side, I can even wear a raw spot in my skin in that same spot. None of the guns have any sharp edges in that area so I can only surmise that the pistol is moving in my grip and causing more friction in that spot that I realize while shooting until sometimes after my range session is done and I look down at my hand and feel the sting. My accuracy and precision are not really suffering during the session as I stay focused on making good consistent shots, but it is annoying to deal with sometimes having to have a band-aid on for a few days afterwards. With paying close attention to grip mechanics, it feels like I need to grip the polymer pistols firmer than I would with a metal frame gun even though the grips and textures of the pistols I'm shooting feel good in the hand otherwise. Of course, when you're trying to make your grip consistent with everything you shoot it is something that is more apparent when you go back and forth between polymer and metal frame guns regularly or when you have this happen when shooting just the polymer guns more frequently.

I know for obvious reasons heavier guns are generally going to recoil less given the same caliber and bore axis considerations, not to mention the smoothness, materials differences, and contours of the metal frames vs polymer frames considered as well, but I have yet to experience that same issue with a P series SIG or Beretta for instance, even with hands that tend toward the smaller side. In my quest to make my grip more consistent across everything I shoot, I am considering trying out the Talon grips on the Glocks and PPQ to see if they reduce the movement and friction against the web of the hand in that spot without adding appreciable bulk like a full on grip sleeve or having to resort to a "death grip" on the polymer pistols which can introduce all kind of other issues with trigger control and such. Are the Talon grips likely to be the solution I am looking for short of using a thin glove of some sort for extended range sessions? For the record I shoot the PPQ with the small backstrap, the Glocks without any backstrap, and the M&P with the medium. I am looking at and considering the rubber version of the Talon grips as opposed to the granular ones for carry considerations too. I don't consider myself to have overly sensitive skin in general but like I said, the issue is pretty consistent and annoying with guns I really enjoy shooting and shoot well with otherwise. Any feedback, experiences, and/or suggestions appreciated.


-Dtech
__________________________

"I've got a life to live, people to love, and a God to serve!" - sigmonkey

"Strive not to be a success, but rather to be of value." - Albert Einstein

"A man can never have too much red wine, too many books, or too much ammunition" ― Rudyard Kipling
 
Posts: 4417 | Location: Central Florida | Registered: April 03, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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I don't know whether Talon grips would help you or not. FWLIW, though, I would argue that your problem isn't making a pistol grip stick to your hand better but making it fit your hand better. When you take a "death grip" you're essentially adapting the shape of your hand to the grip.
 
Posts: 27313 | Location: Deep in the heart of the brush country, and closing on that #&*%!?! roadrunner. Really. | Registered: February 05, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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I know exactly what you're talking about, especially with the PPQ. Something about the tang really digs in right as the base of my thumb. I'm not sure whether adding Talons would help or not, but they're not very expensive and easy enough to remove if you don't get the results you want.


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Posts: 1872 | Registered: June 25, 2010Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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I much prefer the rubber version, having tried both. I would agree that it sounds more like an ergonomic fit issue. Also; recoil control is as much about managing the recoil impulse as it is trying to limit it. Working on Proper trigger dynamics and follow through may enable you to loosen your death grip and alleviate the pressure points. That being said; there are just some guns that are uncomfortable for me to shoot, glocks among them.


"Escaped the liberal Borg and living free"
 
Posts: 2227 | Location: North Carolina, USA | Registered: January 21, 2003Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Ethics, antics,
and ballistics
Picture of Dtech
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Appreciate all the responses so far and can concede that it may very well ultimately end up being a less than optimal ergonomic fit of a particular gun to my hand than the actual adhesion or slip of the grip and friction during recoil management, but at the same time if the issue can be resolved with something as simple as a Talon grip, I was curious to hear if anyone had had a similar experience and resolved it with the Talon grips. I recognize that there could also be other things at play that may mean that while the gun feels good in the hand while just holding it, that may not translate to being the case during live fire including the actual angle of the grip and the way the rear of the frame sits against the web of my hand. I guess I'm trying to find a simple solution to the possibility that a stock Glock or Walther grip/frame may not allow me to shoot more than 150 rounds at a time without some discomfort and irritation.

On quick comparison between the M&P, Glock, and PPQ, it does seem that not only does the frame of the M&P have a different grip angle, it has a somewhat narrower frame and more up-swept curve to the rear of the frame that sits against the web of your hand as compared to the Glock and PPQ. Again, they all feel good in the hand, but it would appear that the extra width and shape of the frame in that area and grip angle differences may be the prime offenders in this case. The more I handle them and look at the differences, the more I'm starting to think you guys that mentioned it is more an ergonomic issue might be right. Considering how much I like the Gen5 Glock and PPQ though it would be heartbreaking to think that I might have to come to term that I can't make my hand fit them or stick to them better if the are just not optimal for me. It is obviously something you can't really discover, at least in my case, without shooting a particular gun more frequently and for a longer, relatively higher round count than an occasional 100 or 150 round range session. Even then I would typically notice a bit of a red spot in that area of my web but not yet to the point of noticeable irritation or missing skin.

Now that I think about it though, all of my last few range sessions I have been practicing more in the isosceles stance straight on to the target than the modified weaver stance I have more typically used, so I wonder if I am subconsciously allowing the gun to cant in my grip while shooting to keep the sights on target and aligned with my eyes to account for the more straight on to the target two-handed stance as opposed to the more linear to the strong-side arm alignment of the modified weaver I have typically shot in in the past. I know it may just be trying to make another excuse to avoid the ergonomic possibilities involved because I really do like what the Glock and Walther offer as the great pistols they are, but something I will address and pay close attention to on my next range visit.

Ultimately I may have to come to the reality that you can't walk very far in a size 10 1/2 shoe if you have size 11 feet. I still may give the Talon grips a try though, at least on one of the pistols, to see if it makes a difference.


-Dtech
__________________________

"I've got a life to live, people to love, and a God to serve!" - sigmonkey

"Strive not to be a success, but rather to be of value." - Albert Einstein

"A man can never have too much red wine, too many books, or too much ammunition" ― Rudyard Kipling
 
Posts: 4417 | Location: Central Florida | Registered: April 03, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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