quote:

Originally posted by BBMW:
But if you want to use the gun for defensive purposes, shooting enjoyment isn't really a criteria.

I disagree. I enjoy when I shoot well. Also people are a lot more likely to practice more if they enjoy it. I like putting rounds quickly and accurately in the 10ring and this is for me more easily accomplished with 9x19s and 45's because for me they tend to shoot better. YMMV

Desert Eagle in .50AE ?

Wow a ton of great responses! Thanks to each and every one of you for offering your opinions--you have given me a lot to think about.

You owe it to yourself to have at least one 1911; a great gun to shoot. For fun at the range, a 5" 629 .44 mag; a hoot to shoot.

Ok, here ya go:

https://sigforum.com/eve/forums...0601935/m/1750022634

Of all my .45s,(P250C, P220, P-220 Match, CZ97) my favorite by far is my CZ97. Splendid accuracy right out of the box, recoils as light as some 9mms, feels great in the hand, 10 + 1 capacity, just an all around great choice for .45ACP.

Nothing wrong with just picking up new guns. I think as long as you arent just basing it off of cal X is better than 9mm then your fine.

quote:

Originally posted by sigspecops:
Desert Eagle in .50AE ?

Sounds like a winner to me

My choice for a 2nd caliber was the 10mm. It offers more power than the 45 with higher capacity. I also found it more comforting to carry than my 9mm while hiking in moose and black bear territory.
Now a good other option would be 357mag. It looses the capacity argument but it's such a fantastic round with lots of flexibility. My 357 mag marlin is my favorite firearm and never fails to put a smile on the face of anyone who shoots it.

If you want some non-1911 excellence buy the CZ 97B and/or the S&W 4506. Gonna talk you up. These are great guns.

Ahhh caliber wars....

Bigger is always more effective. So, if you don't mind a larger gun with fewer rounds and more recoil, go bigger. BUT....

Today there have been MANY studies and LOTS of ballistic arguments and the bottom line is that of the popular common semi auto pistol calibers (9mm, .357sig, .40, .45acp etc) they are close enough in performance that SHOT PLACEMENT is the most important factor.

Given this , 9mm is cheapest to buy and shoot, has least amount of recoil and more of them fit in the gun.

If I was a beat cop and carrying a full size on my belt , .45acp in full size gun. For conceal carry 9mm is perfect unless you want a pocket gun (which I admittedly carry most ) then .380 works well.

While you may not "need" a larger caliber, they are super fun to shoot. Everyone should aspire to own a 1911 and a .44 magnum ie S&W model 29.

I can't stand the "shot placement" argument. Larger calibers are not harder to shoot accurately than smaller calibers. Larger calibers can be SLOWER to shoot accurately than smaller calibers, but that only applies to follow-up shots.

The real question to balance for a gun fight is this. "Is the fraction of a second (whatever that is for you, not anyone else) likely to be more important then the extra power on the particular target that happens to be in front of you at the critical moment.

Since the value of the second part of that equation can never be known in advance, there is no one definitive answer. You just have to reach an informed decision you are comfortable with. For me, that means I carry either .357 SIG or .40 S&W. I'm pretty slow no matter what I shoot.

quote:

Originally posted by RichN:
For me, that means I carry either .357 SIG or .40 S&W. I'm pretty slow no matter what I shoot.

I resemble that remark.

Have you seen the Lucky Gunner ballistic tests?

https://www.luckygunner.com/la...mmo-ballistic-tests/

The results for the Federal HST in .45 ACP are impressive, just saying.

quote:

Originally posted by RichN:
Larger calibers are not harder to shoot accurately than smaller calibers. Larger calibers can be SLOWER to shoot accurately than smaller calibers, but that only applies to follow-up shots.

This is NOT true. Larger calibers ARE more difficult to shoot well. My FIRST pistol was a 44mag. I’ve shot it extensively as well as 45 Long Colt fully loaded, 480 Ruger, 454 Casull and 500 Smith and Wesson. I’ve shot a LOT more heavy caliber pistols than the average shooter. NEVER kid yourself that they aren’t harder to shoot. Recoil is a serious consideration to the point that I recommend strongly that people don’t shoot the heavier calibers until they have had adequate experience with lower recoil calibers. My 500 S&W is a VERY acccurate pistol, it is far more accurate at longer ranges than most of my self defense pistols but it is much more difficult to shoot. Just about the worst thing you can do to a new pistol shooter is to hand them a 44 mag or the like and laugh as it hurts them and turns them into a major flincher.

That being said 45ACP’s don’t kick much more if at all than most 9x19’s. 40’s do tend to IMO be a bit more snappy. But don’t kid yourself or anyone else that the larger 44mag etc calibers are just as easy to shoot as a 9x19, it just isn’t true................dj

quote:

Originally posted by djpaintles:
Larger calibers ARE more difficult to shoot well...

I think we are talking about two separate things. I was not advocating that someone learn with a .44 Magnum as their first gun.

Obviously, if someone has developed a flinch because they are afraid of a certain gun they will not be proficient with it, although that often follows them to other guns, which means even putting a lower caliber gun in their hand would probably not help their next shot.

But with normal defensive calibers in equally accurate guns, there is nothing inherent in the act of taking a proper grip, lining up the sights, and pulling the trigger that will be harder with one gun over the other. Once they take the shot, they may have to allow more time for the sights to re-align for the next shot, but there is again nothing inherent in the larger caliber that will prevent those sights from eventually properly aligning again.

RichN, If we are talking about “normal defense calibers” I’ll agree mostly that there isn’t that big of a difference in them other than a lot of the inexpensive 115gr ball 9x19 is notably lighter recoil than some of the other calibers. In full power loads I do find 180gr 40 S&W to be snappier than slower recoil 230gr 45 ACP or lighter bullet 9x19..........dj

Having multiple calibers is a good, if more expensive, way to go since you're having to stock or load for different types. 45AUTO is very much a fun/okay round, and the P220 (of all of the SIG 45s available) is a great choice.

But I side with the 10mm guys that have posted so far. With the right model gun, you can convert a 10mm to 40S&W and 357SIG just with barrel swaps. Three higher calibers in one!

quote:

Originally posted by soggy_spinout:
. With the right model gun, you can convert a 10mm to 40S&W and 357SIG just with barrel swaps. Three higher calibers in one!

What??? You can convert a 40S&W to a 357SIG with a barrel swap, the 10mm auto is a different frame sized gun.