I have a second question regarding differences in my 2 P229 pistols.

I, typically, use Tipton snap caps to test out function after a field strip cleaning.

My New Emperor Scorpion P229 (300 rounds fired) is having trouble cycling these. I, to often, end up with a stove pipe when hand cycling a couple through.

If I SLOWLY pull the slide back I notice, 1/2 the time, that the tipton snap cap simply falls off the extractor. It just doesn't grip it...causing it to not meet the ejector arm correctly...and, likely, causing the stove pipe.

I think, in the 2 years of owning my Legion P229, this stove pipe has happened maybe once cycling the same snap caps. Seems to cycle them fine.

Have had zero failure to eject or failure to extract (SO FAR) with the first 300 live rounds of breaking in the Scorpion, at the range....but finding it weird it won't hand cycle these Tipton Snap Caps well.

Are these snap caps a different measurement or is this indicative of an extractor out of spec issue somewhere....and a future possible FTE problem?

No experience with Tipton snap caps, but I’ve not had that problem with A-Zoom snap caps in my 9mm SIG X5, or my SIG P238.

I always load the snap cap from a mag. If you put the snap cap directly into the chamber, its rim will get damaged by the extractor riding over it, leading to extraction problems.

I have found that some snap caps have thin rims or other dimensional differences from real rounds.

ST Action Pro dummy rounds are made with real cartridge cases. They are the right size, very durable, and I much prefer them for malfunction drills and some function testing. Brownells offers “action proving” dummies that are even better for function testing, but probably not necessary for most purposes. Neither is really a snap cap that protects the firing pin, however.

https://www.amazon.com/s/ref=n...9&crid=2NKLIYYCGELKO

I personally would not be concerned about problems that occur during hand cycling, and especially not with possibly out-of-spec snap caps. What matters is what happens when the gun is fired.

Added: I just checked some Tipton snap caps I have and their case rims are so much thinner than those of live rounds that it was visible by eye. Thinner rims don’t fill the extractor hook space as much, and I’m not surprised the extractor doesn’t hold one in place.

Thanks again guys.

Yes, sigfreund, I noticed that the rim of the Tipton Snap Cap is thinner than regular rounds just by looking at them as well.

However, a live round does not fill the gap either. In fact, when you have the gun field stripped and you push a live round up into the ejector, it looks as if it is truly being held by the pressure of the end of the hook, spring, and the pressure from the other side of the round against the other side of the breech face. At least that is what looks to be happening.

You can literally wiggle the live round rim, or snapcap, because of the extra space. I always thought the rim filled this gap and that is how it worked...it doesn't seem to do that.

Even a live round doesn't fill that gap between the breech face and the extractor hook. Not from what I can tell. This is true on both my P229's, however, there does seem to be a tiny bit less space on the Legion. Weird!!!

At any rate...my Legion seems to be able to hand cycle these no problem...the new Scorpion not so much....thus, my question.

I don’t believe you have anything to be concerned about, but your question piqued my curiosity, so I checked a couple 9mm SIGs, a P226 and a P229. Both have the short extractor originally used in stainless steel slides. The P226 has fired over 11,000 rounds and the P229 about 7K; neither has had any malfunctions except for a few failures to fire defective ammunition.

In neither gun does either the rim of the Tipton snap cap or a Blazer round fill the gap between the rear of the extractor hook and the breech face. The P229 will hold the live round and not the snap cap, but that’s due to the diameter of the case inside the extractor groove. The round’s extractor groove diameter is obviously larger than the snap cap’s.

The P226 will hold both the snap cap and the live round, evidently because the extractor hook extends farther toward the center of the breech face than the extractor of the P229.

So to confirm, it is the pressure of the extractor hook against the inside (bottom) of the extractor groove that holds the cartridge or cap in place without the barrel being in the slide.

SIG extractors are made of very hard steel, and although the factory recommendation is to replace them every 20,000 rounds, I’ve never heard of one failing due to simple wear. I also suspect most such guns with over 20K rounds have never had their extractors replaced. You could, however, try replacing the extractor that’s worrying you to see if it makes any difference. But manufacturing variations being what they are, it may not.

Sigfreund,

I am interested on how things work, why things work, and having things work right, consistently, and totally reliable. You have some GREAT information here....Thanks.

Both my sigs are the newer long extractor style...they were purchased in 2016 (Legion) and 2019 (Scorpion). Both are carry/self-defense guns...thus, the concern over reliability. They MUST fire every time.

I am gun shy (no pun intended) about reliability because my first Sig P229 Nitron had a reliability issue...that no one could figure out. Problem was random Failure to Extract...and changing the extractor did not help...done that twice.

PLUS, most importantly, as you mentioned, is that my new Scorpion Extracts an empty cartridge every time...sooo, even though it intermittently drops the snap cap and that causes cycling problems...it has yet to do that with live fired rounds. So if that never happens...there is no problem.

I don't have a caliper...but I believe that there must be a diameter difference between the normal live rounds and those snap caps as well....yet my Legion does hand cycle them all the time. Probably like your P226 would.

In addition, my new Scorpion has only 300 rounds and things might still be a little tight. Who knows.

Yes...I believe this is true even when firing the pistol "So to confirm, it is the pressure of the extractor hook against the inside (bottom) of the extractor groove that holds the cartridge or cap in place without the barrel being in the slide." But I'm certainly no expert.

Anyway...thanks for all the information...very helpful.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: KM1,