I spent some time with a few revolvers on the range today. It started out as trying to shoot some more milk jug penetration tests, and turned into more of an overall comparison of the three different guns after I ran out of milk jugs.



First, the milk jug test:

The Model 640 got 48” of penetration with the LSWC load. That’s pretty substantial, and compares favorably to woods loads in other calibers that I’ve tested. It’s especially impressive out of a gun that small.
The Model 60 got 35”, but deviated out the bottom of the 5th jug and buried itself in the dirt under the 6th, so it wasn’t really a fair comparison to the 640. I’m going to have to try this one again.
I ran out of jugs before I could try the 66.

I also chronographed 3 different loads out of each gun:

.357 Mag 158gr LSWC over 15.5gr of H110
640 2”: 1061 fps
60 3”: 1157 fps
66 4”: 1227 fps

.357 Mag 158gr CLRN over 15.5gr of H110
640 2”: 1119 fps
60 3”: 1186 fps
66 4”: 1263 fps

.38 spcl 158gr LSWC over 4.0gr Unique
640 2”: 820 fps
60 3”: 859 fps
66 4”: 843 fps


I thought it was interesting that the coated bullets in the .357 loads ran faster than the plain lead, even though they were the same weight and powder charge as the other load. The longer barrels also showed a velocity improvement with the magnum loads, but not with the .38 Special load (That one was pretty inconsistent and the results listed above are a five shot average, so I’m not sure if the 4” results were really slower or if that was more of a statistical anomaly).

After playing with the chronograph I ran a couple of 5 shot “bill drills” from the low ready on a USPSA target and calculated the hit factor:

Model 640: 2.62 seconds clean with a HF of 9.54
Model 60: 2.19 seconds clean with a HF of 11.42
Model 66: 2.42 seconds clean with a HF of 11.16

And finally a speed run on the plate rack at about 15 yards:

Model 640: 6.55 with 3 misses
Model 60: 6.00 with 1 miss
Model 66: 6.29 with 1 miss


I like the 640. It’s concealable and the sights are easy to acquire. It’s small enough to slip into a pocket, but heavy enough to make shooting magnum loads bearable. And despite what I’ve heard elsewhere, magnum loads do still provide a ballistic advantage out of a 2” barrel compared to .38 Spcl loads. Not as much as a longer barrel, but still a couple of hundred feet per second, and that seems to make a substantial difference in penetration testing.

The Model 60 seems to be the overall best performer. It gives up a little bit of velocity to the 4” gun, but gains about 100fps on the 2”. The longer sight radius of the 3” barrel helps with aiming over the 2”, and it definitely carries better than the bigger K-Frame Model 66. The longer barrel helps get back on target a little quicker than the 2” gun, but the plain black sights are a bit harder to see.

The Model 66 is nice, but I feel like the J-frame grip fits my hand better. I also don’t see myself carrying a .357 revolver that big, especially when the 3” Model 60 is an option. I’ll gladly sacrifice the extra round for the bulk and weight savings of the J-frame, especially comparing my times and hit factors between the two.

Now if only they’d offer the 60 (or better yet, the 360) in a 4”!

Nice write-up and excellent trio of revolvers!

I have never seen or heard of a 60 or 60 variant with a 4” barrel. There was however a 60-18 (2005) IL .357 with 5” barrel, Target with new design two-piece barrel. Information obtained from the Standard Catalog of Smith & Wesson.

quote:

Originally posted by lot_45:
I have never seen or heard of a 60 or 60 variant with a 4” barrel. There was however a 60-18 (2005) IL .357 with 5” barrel, Target with new design two-piece barrel. Information obtained from the Standard Catalog of Smith & Wesson.

Yeah, I've seen those 5" ones, and there was actually one in the classifieds here a while back that kinda tempted me, but I'm looking for something that would fit in my Hill People Gear kit bag for backpacking, and 5" is just too long. 4" would be perfect, especially if it was an airweight. They did make a 3" 360 for a while, and there's one on GunBroker right now for a kinda reasonable price, but I can't really swing it at the moment, plus it's not the 4" that I really want.

That's awesome. 640 numbers are impressive. I bet that's not a fun load to shoot out of that little gun.

I have a 340 and I only keep it in the range for guests to try. They never shoot more than one round of .357. It literally feels like the gun exploded in your hand every time LOL.

I’m still not man enough to shoot .357 out of a small snubnose like that…

quote:

Originally posted by 1KPerDay:
That's awesome. 640 numbers are impressive. I bet that's not a fun load to shoot out of that little gun.

I have a 340 and I only keep it in the range for guests to try. They never shoot more than one round of .357. It literally feels like the gun exploded in your hand every time LOL.

It's actually not that bad. .357 mag out of that 640 is about on par with .38+P out of a 642. It's spicy, but not painful. It would probably wear you out eventually, but a cylinder or two isn't that bad. There's enough weight with the steel gun that it soaks up the recoil pretty well.

quote:

Originally posted by PASig:
I’m still not man enough to shoot .357 out of a small snubnose like that…

92fstech must obviously like pain.

I once let my wife shoot one. She asked if it kicked and I said "not really". After firing one round, she handed it back to me and said "YOU SON OF A BITCH" and walked away.

quote:

Originally posted by Jupiter:

quote:

Originally posted by PASig:
I’m still not man enough to shoot .357 out of a small snubnose like that…

92fstech must obviously like pain.

I once let my wife shoot one. She asked if it kicked and I said "not really". After firing one round, she handed it back to me and said "YOU SON OF A BITCH" and walked away.

You're a brave man pulling that one on your wife, lol!

With a proper grip I really don't mind the 640. It's got enough weight to it to be manageable, and has a true 2" tube instead of 1 7/8", which actually makes a measurable difference in output from what I've read (I don't own any 1 7/8" .357s to test it). It still makes a hell of a fireball with that H110 load, though:




The 360/340 are an entirely different animal.

The first instructor who ever really put any effort into teaching me to shoot was a reserve deputy at our local Sheriff's office. Great guy, invested a bunch of his own time with no compensation to help get us proficient, and used to put on monthly shoots for any officer that wanted to come. He's since passed of cancer, and I miss him greatly.

I remember one day we had just finished shooting and another Sheriff's deputy buddy was kinda running his mouth. We all know one of those...good dude, but occasionally needs taken down a notch. Anyway, the instructor always carried a 360SC as an ankle gun, and decided this would be a good time to let this guy shoot it. I kinda saw where this was going, so I just kept my mouth shut and watched. He got through one round, put it down, and didn't talk so big after that .

What a flamethrower!
Your instructor knew that few things in this world say "GET THE FU$K OFF OF ME" better than a 360SC .357 in the rib cage.

Excellent range report, 92fstech, and the metrics, oh my!

Have you done any trigger improvement(s) on your Model 60?

quote:

Have you done any trigger improvement(s) on your Model 60?

Nothing too crazy, just a little polishing and deburring. IIRC one ratchet tooth had a little hitch so I cleaned that up. I didn't mess with anything that wouldn't have worked itself out on its own through dry fire, but I was impatient lol.

Thanks!

Considering my mechanical aptitude & skill,
I should just dry fire my spouse's Model 60 a few hundred times.

I may have to use my all my pointing and bird fingers to get there.

quote:

Originally posted by RichardC:

I may have to use my all my pointing and bird fingers to get there.

Dry firing a J-Frame will certainly build those finger muscles, lol!