Anyone know what type of aluminum the frames are made of? 6061, 7075, etc?

Anodizing does reduce fatigue resistance on aluminum but it only a small amount or (very little gain).

Properly done shot peening prior to hard anodizing raises fatigue resistance significantly. This process is typically done to most aircraft aluminum parts. Because of the rough surface finish from shot peening it is typically not done to aluminum pistol parts.

I would have NO qualms about having Robar refinishing a SIG frame. (One or two of mine will be headed there)
The horseshit anodizing that covers my P220 frame rails (from Exeter) have been light gold -> turning to silver and needs to be addressed.

The 226 frame that is West German triple numbered has easily 5X the amount of rounds through it is still black.
Roguard on the frame of the 220 will be a huge improvement over the factory garbage. They both have NP3 on the slides and internals. That btw looks like it was done last week even though the 226 has been used for approx. 20 years.

What an informative post, Q. Again, thank you for your contributions to this forum and for providing definitive answers to these questions.

CCR shows Nikote for aluminum.
Any news leaks as to what it really is?

"Ni-kote is a Nickel based alternative finish to tank based Nickel plating. We at CCR have designed Ni-kote for use on Anodized Alloy frames ONLY to be as close of a match to our CPII plating process as possible without having to compromise the factory Anodization."

quote:

Originally posted by Jelly:


Properly done shot peening prior to hard anodizing raises fatigue resistance significantly. This process is typically done to most aircraft aluminum parts. Because of the rough surface finish from shot peening it is typically not done to aluminum pistol parts.

Anodizing is rarely done on aircraft parts, with the exception of cosmetic work. Alodining is more common.

quote:

Originally posted by SiGagain:

quote:

Originally posted by David Lee:
Interesting topic Q. I'll ask if frames were plated EN, was there not some mention a few times here of a copper plate first applied ? I know little of this process. Great post by sns3 also. I recall print dimensions being altered for plating, such as holes for pins due to build up. I cannot recall the name of this tolerencing. Its been a few years sinse I've had to calculate this. I'm rusty. Pun intended.

many mention copper as it is used under the shiny nickel but EN does not require it and I've never read where a plater has used copper under their EN coatings...

Bill

Yeah, I've seen folks mention copper this and copper that. So, I dug a little more and found a discussion elsewhere where some hot dog, who had all the characteristics of someone who was banned from here, was going on and on about how Klein Ni SIGs were not EN, and there was a thin layer of copper underneath the Ni. He went on with an air of authority, because he owns a bunch of Ni SIGs.

Then, Mr D. signed up on that forum and blew him right out of the water with real facts, not bullshit. The guy was never heard from again.

Here is a direct quote from Mr D, which I also added to the "factoids" thread:

quote:

As current owner and an employee whose first job at Klein Plating was finishing Sig Sauer pistols, I can with authority say ALL Sig's that we plated were finished in electroless nickel. At no point did we ever use a copper underplate. We offered Sig a few different "looks" in terms of the finish, but all of them were plated to an internal quality specification requiring electroless nickel.

Joe Dudenhoeffer
President
Klein Plating Works, Inc.
2020 Greengarden Road
Erie, PA 16502

I Googled that address in Erie and it pulls up a nice series of photos. It's quite a facility and shows they celebrated their 100th Anniversary in 2015. I believe there's no doubt that Joe knows whereof he speaks!

I believe I remember whom you speak of on another Forum...I butt'd heads with him over the Klein and EN claims...I'm no expert but I do remember what I was told both by SIGArms and by Tommy at Klein over the years as I had contacted them on several occasions...

Good recall 12131

Bill

Ok, so what does this mean at the end-user level?

If you take a factory anodized P226 and shoot it in USPSA alternating with a stripped and EN plated P226, at how many rounds approximately would each frame develop problems? Would you have to leave instructions in your will for someone else to continue the experiment for posterity?

(I realize nobody has the answer...but are we talking 80k vs. 90k, 10k vs 60k, or within any reasonable margin of error?)

I have no expertise or opinion to share regarding the issue. However, I do have anecdotal information based on first hand experience.

Austin Behlert of Behlert Precision was one of the pioneering master 1911 custom gunsmiths back in the !970's and 1980's. He was based in Pipersville. PA, which was about a 40 minute drive from me. I had a number of jobs done at his shop in the 1980's and early 1990's. He was still active, although his son had full charge of the business at the time. IIRC, Bruce Gray worked for Austin for a time, the dates which currently escape me.

One pistol was my Colt Series Lightweight Commander, which of course, had the aluminum alloy frame. What Austin suggested was removing the black anodized finish on the frame and leaving the small parts and slide blued. It made for a very attractive 1911. My point is that if removing an anodized finish is so ruinous to the integrity of the frame, why would he have suggested it? I presume it was because, rightly or wrongly, he saw no harm in it.

I have thousands of rounds through it with no premature wear, frame damage or anything else that would be related to the anodizing removal. I'm not saying this proves anything one way or another. But it is interesting considering the horror and conventional wisdom regarding the issue. I think it would fascinating to see some scientific testing with anodized versus removed anodized pistols. Would the results show it is a bad practice or not. Who knows? All I've ever seen have been technical/metallurgical explanations and nothing relating to actual effects and results.