Soggy, I had one 20+ years ago.Beautiful fit and finish, splendid accuracy, light,crisp trigger,etc. But as others have mentioned, the reliability thing. I never did find even one type of ammo that would function reliably in my 41. Finally sold it over the reliability issue, and went back to the more pedestrian, but uber reliable Ruger .22 pistol......

quote:

Originally posted by Jim Watson:
I think every serious shooter needs a good .22.
It doesn't have to be a M41. Mine is very nice but my High Standard might be better. At least I can get dependable magazines for the Smith. I have five for it, sets me up for Steel Challenge. Only two good High Standards and now even the Texas rump organization is out of business.

And I also have a Nelson Conversion on order. We shall see.

The Nelson is the new favorite, or appears to be, for the bullseye crowd,


my 41 has had limited range time (older model, I've had it maybe 5 yrs)

I was fortunate to get an extra barrel with it, so I have both the 5.5 and 7.5 (with comp) and one is irons, the other has a vintage aimpoint attached

Here are the 22lr's i have had in the last year.


I have sold the Rugers Shown above, the colt Official police in 22lr. I have added the model 41 below. Spiffed up one of the victories, (well parts are on their way). The trailside, Xeese, 87T, Woodsman, and 617 prelock are by far the best i have ever owned. I have owned VQ made guns, Assembled VQ pistols, Tuned a half dozen Ruger MKII and MKIII's with various parts. None have really lived up to my expectations. What i have now is a great breath of 22lr pistols focusing on all the fundamentals needed for pistol marksmanship and proficiency in arms.
Out of all of them I would rate them in this order for being able to help someone with their shooting skills.

1 Hands down, the absolute best firearm to help someone is a 22lr revolver in double action single action. For that, I think the best effective practice revolver is 6" 10 shot smith and wesson 617. The weight, sight radius, number of rounds held and consistency of the Double action trigger pull reinforce muscle memory and skill growth.
I recommend getting one with a speed beez tray and speed loader. 300-500 rounds per range session. shooting the small nickel or dime sized dots at 25 ft.



2 Next is a dedicated Target model 22lr. Find one that fits your budget. Get that trigger down in weight, The focus here is proper grip, and trigger pull. whereas the focus on the revolver is the integration of all of it together. I have both an older 41 and a newer Xeese & Trailside. All three are great, hands above a Ruger, tuned Ruger, or Smith and Wesson victory. Practice with these 2 rounds at a time, focusing on trigger pull and grip. get 10 mags, work those dime size dots at 35 ft.

In my previous post in this thread, I pasted in a chart that reported group size for many .22LR pistols at a target distance of 50’. The top eleven ranged from 0.51” to 0.75”. That 0.24” difference is negligible to me, given my level of accuracy, hand held, at that distance.

So, choosing a pistol from that group of eleven, other factors than machine rest accuracy would be more important to me: reliability, cost, grip angle, availability of parts, etc. Even esthetics.

Furthermore, even though the Hämmerli 208 has better intrinsic accuracy than my Beretta 87T, I suspect that I would get poorer groups with the Hämmerli than I get with the 87T. The 87T is so right for me.

I have two 41 pistols. One is made late 70s "A" serial number era. The other is from 1959. The old one has the comp barrel and also the field barrel. The newer one has the 5.5" barrel relined, and a replacement barrel much newer. The newer barrel was a 7" now cut to 5.5"
The cut barrel has shot test groups of 1/2" at 50 yards.
I am in the process of getting a third 41 that is a 1960s build 7 3/8 barreled with comp.

You need one.

https://sigforum.com/eve/forums...0601935/m/9560047044

If you have a hankering for it- get it!


.22lr is my favorite caliber in anything. Like chocolates- I keep wanting more.

I have some nice .22lr handguns, and some knock-around ones.

Yet, despite my options, the S&W 41 just skates right past me. I simply am not all that keen for some reason.

Heck, the Beretta 89Target speaks to me more-despite my acknowledgement that the 41 probably has a better trigger and reset.


When I started on this journey of acquiring and shooting firearms, my first .22lr was a Ruger MK II 22/45 [the first 22/45], and I've tricked it out. It is still more accurate than I am, and is hard to beat.

It took me about 10 years before I bought another .22lr handgun, as that Ruger was doing everything for me and was all I could afford.

My life has changed, and I have more options [and 4 of the top 5 in the list from page 1].

My recommendations:

IF you have a reliable .22lr for 'plinking' level accuracy/fun, AND you can afford the 41, AND it keeps whispering your name: get it!

IF you don't have any .22lr handguns, I recommend you get a less expensive one that is good for .22lr SV and HV ammo [but not hyper].

In this category are most modern revolvers and many semi-autos.

Note that a Buckmark Plus was tied for number 4 in the precision listing, and statistically insignificantly better than the S&W 41 [basically, tied with it too].

Yet, the Buckmark Plus can be had for less than $400 [I bought mine for $300 at my LGS a couple years ago], and required only two changes to give it a crisp 2# trigger with almost no takeup, a short reset and no overtravel.


I simply added the factory Browning adjustable trigger, and did the 'Heggis Flip' to the sear spring [be careful if you do- read about it on rimfire central].


For another $100 I got 5 magazine, and for less than $500 I had a very accurate firearm that cost over $500 less than a model 41.


BUT, it ISN'T a Model 41.

A Ruger MK II or MK III can be had for a good price, but all of them seem to need trigger action parts to be 'up to snuff'. Plan on sinking about $100 into sear, sear bushing, hammer, connector to make it work as well as it is capable of.

I didn't like how it felt with aftermarket hammers, so left the hammer stock.

Good .22lr revolvers are fun also- but the most accurate were 6 shots from before the 617 had 10, or the 617. The Ruger GP100 10 shot has potential. The SP101 8 shot isn't as good.

There were other companies with 8 or 9 shots, but generally the S&W or Colts were the most accurate.

BTW, a Ruger Single-Six seems to have less potential for accuracy due to being bored for .22mag also, and due to lock-time issues in a SA revolver.



If you have no .22lr- get a good one.



I Love High Standards, but they are supposed to only use SV ammo, or frame cracks can occur over time. Also, their magazines are finicky.



The Ruger MK II/MK III and Buckmark are the simplest/cheapest/most precise options- with more aftermarket parts support for the Ruger [but it needs it- the Buckmark needs little].

Good luck- report back on your decision!!!

This message has been edited. Last edited by: bczrx,

Personally I would rather a Beretta 89 Target

quote:

Originally posted by Dusty78:
Personally I would rather a Beretta 89 Target

I was outbid on one a few months back on GB. It went for not much more than a new 41 would typically sell these days, but I got slammed at the shop and forgot to check on the auction before it ended. Pains me to think about it because I would've went much higher.

I really don't get the love for the 87 Target. Mine has that weird trigger that makes it rather difficult/annoying/frustrating to shoot with any consistent accuracy. Maybe I just light rounds off too fast or have developed a complex but my Victory, the Hammerli/SIGs and bone stock Buck Mark are easier to shoot itsy bitsy lil' groups with. My 87T instead drives me nuts for what's supposedly tagged as a 'target gun'.

As for the 41: it's still in our shop vault but I'm pretty sure that it'll be mine...at least that's how I'm thinking at the moment. There's a piece of my psyche that's telling me that I need this gun, potential warts and all. Lately that feeling hasn't been happening very much with new product that's been filtering into work.

Now is a good time to find CCI standard velocity ammunition.

quote:

Originally posted by soggy_spinout:

As for the 41: it's still in our shop vault but I'm pretty sure that it'll be mine...at least that's how I'm thinking at the moment. There's a piece of my psyche that's telling me that I need this gun, potential warts and all. Lately that feeling hasn't been happening very much with new product that's been filtering into work.

In this case- I say 'get it'.

Not all of life is about practical. Some is about something more.

That is what drove my buying of Colt revolvers.

My Rugers are up to all that I am capable of, but the Colt OMM just felt good in my hand, and I loved the history of it.

Well, Soggy...they're wonderfully accurate, with a great target grip for a M to L sized hand and mine (an early 70's model) has a trigger that's the best that S&W can deliver and that's saying a lot. I have the 5" "Field Bbl. as well as the 5-1/2" heavy target barrel and the gun's equally accurate with either. All that notwithstanding, it rarely gets out of the safe, due mostly to my current preoccupation with defensive type shooting vs. paper and steel.

But...it's always a pleasure to shoot it and to marvel at its accuracy with most any type ammunition. Clay birds at 100 yds over open sights are still not beyond my ability at 72 years old, and it's the gun that allows me to do this. I'd say, all in all, you'd never regret the purchase, and the gun'll be a keeper as long as you're above the sod. Rod

Should you have a M-41 on your bucket list? I think so, it may not be the best .22 target pistol available but it is surely the best American target pistol. Someone said that the M-41 has the best out of the box trigger of any production firearm, I think that is probably accurate.

I have two mid-60s M-41s one of which I bought new. I do not have ammunition problems unless I try to go cheap. The chamber is tight and relatively short, ammunition which has much variance in size will cause failures to chamber and then problems clearing. CCI-SV is not expensive, is readily available, and is trouble free for most people. Ammunition made to a higher standard than CCI is recommended for target use at 50 yards, because CCI-SV has a relatively high velocity SD.
I don't think anyone has made aftermarket mags for the M-41, but factory mags are trouble free, replace the springs every 30 years in heavy use.

The Hammerli 208 has been successful in Bullseye shooting in some hands, however its long out of production, and not trouble free. Buying one will be an expensive itch to scratch.
I have a Pardini which is current production and Pardinis are moving into the competitive shooting ranks in the US. Its no doubt a better pistol than an M-41, better sights, better grip angle, very adjustable trigger, modern recoil control, and so forth. I am not certain that I can shoot it much better, and that's not from lack of trying.

I don't have a Nelson Conversion but the attraction is in being to use one pistol for both center fire and rim fire competition, not because its a better .22 target pistol. My CZ conversion is very accurate but as a .22 target pistol I would not rate it as tops.

You can buy many improved grips for an M-41, I like Rink grips. Bully Barrels (Ray-VIn) are, I think, the best aftermarket barrels for optic uses.

quote:

Originally posted by Jim Watson:
I think every serious shooter needs a good .22.
It doesn't have to be a M41. Mine is very nice but my High Standard might be better. At least I can get dependable magazines for the Smith. I have five for it, sets me up for Steel Challenge. Only two good High Standards and now even the Texas rump organization is out of business.

And I also have a Nelson Conversion on order. We shall see.

just missed a Nelson slightly used on another forum, thought just a bit too long on it,

meanwhile,

41, check, great pistol, I got lucky and got a package deal, meaning an extra barrel (7" with comp, ) one has a vintage Aimpoint on it ,

both barrels shoot way way better that I do,

and they complement the handful of High Standards I have