I have a Colt Combat Unit 9mm, it's a fantastic gun.
August 10, 2023, 06:42 PM
photoman12001
I picked up the Dan Wesson and went straight to the range. These are the results.
Pistols shot:
Dan Wesson Valor 1911 Commander 9mm
BUL Armory 1911 Commander 9mm
SIG P210 Target
SIG P239 SAS DAK 9mm
A few notes:
The 1911s & SIG P210 were shot at 10 yards, isosceles stance.
Targets shown were 30 rounds for the P210 & 20 rounds each for the 1911s.
SIG P239 DAK was shot at 7 yards, 50 rounds, isosceles stance.
Ammo used was CCI Blazer Brass 115gr FMJ.
I shot an additional 20 rounds through each 1911 previously and the groups were more similar. The BUL shot better for these last 20 rounds though.
I alternated between the BUL & Dan Wesson every few magazines.
The Dan Wesson got noticeably warmer than the BUL.
Groups with the Dan Wesson would start off really good, about 3 rounds in a ragged hole, then they started to widen.
The BUL groups tended to have more spread in the beginning, then they would tighten.
There were no malfunctions with any pistol.
The lone high flier from the P239 was my fault. I shifted focus from the front sight to the target and knew I pulled that one.
Take-Aways
The BUL is a darn good pistol and a good value. It shot as well or better than the Dan Wesson.
The Dan Wesson is built much better than the BUL. Everything is tighter and it just feels like a much better quality firearm. The bullets & target did not care about this. It would have been nice if the more expensive pistol shoot noticiable better than the cheaper one but that’s not the way it worked out. The targets don’t lie. I’m just looking at it as the BUL is exceptional for the price. It doesn’t matter anyway because the P210 makes them both look like dookie.
I don’t regret buying the Dan Wesson at all. It’s a beautiful pistol that I’m happy to have in my collection but I don’t see the BUL going anywhere. The Valor scratches the itch that the BUL didn’t.
One of these 1911s might have proven to be better at a greater distance. I might try that and shooting each from a seated rest next time.
I want to put G10 grips on the Valor. I think the G10 grips on the BUL are thinner that the Valor’s wood grips and they’re obviously more grippy. I prefer that to the smooth wood on the Valor though I do like the way the Valor’s wood looks.
If you really want a good shooter, quit f***ing around and just get a P210 I know it’s a 5” barrel against the 4.25” of the commanders but the P210 is a big step up. It handles recoil so well. The extra weight contributes to this but its more than that. The P210 is a phenomenal pistol.
Respect the DAK trigger & the P239. I’ve got this and a DA/SA P239 but I prefer the DAK. I just put G10 grips on it and it’s my primary carry pistol. I prefer hammer over striker fired for concealed carry. This P239 DAK & an HK P30SK LEM V1 are my favorites to carry.
This message has been edited. Last edited by: photoman12001,
Originally posted by JonDaddy82: Any possibility of talking you into a DWX if you're looking for something unique that's in 9mm?
That’s a pretty darn cool but I was specifically looking at 9mm 1911s.
I was looking a CZ TS2 locally too but ruled it out because I wanted a “nicer” 9mm 1911 right now. I still might grab it if I sell some other stuff. I really liked it.
I’ve got some less common 9mm pistols already. For example: a couple of HK P7M8s, SIG P210, S&W 3906/CS9D/3953.
keep in mind I am a dealer now , and at one time worked for another company that sold Kimbers, Dan Wesson and others,
we (those behind the counter) had a saying,
friends don't let friends buy Kimbers,
why,
if we got in 10 1911's, regardless of model, or caliber, 1 or 2 would be broken out of the box,
by broke, I mean you take it out the box, drop the mag, check the chamber , and then check the serial to the box,
go to reinsert the mag, and it would not work,
I taught a handful of guys (and gals) how to pull a 1911 mag release, take it apart, clean it up, and reinstall,
then they almost always worked,
something as simple as a mag catch that was missed, often, but QC,
and about every 2 or 3rd batch, a customer would come back and we would have to send one back to the factory for something ,
of all the brands, for the 5 yrs I worked there, Kimber was #2 for send backs, (Taurus #1, but they have significantly improved after the class action lawsuit,, and now are better, return wise)
never sent a DW back, never sent a Springfield Armory back, never sent a Colt back (tho rarely saw a Colt in 9mm)
https://www.chesterfieldarmament.com/
August 11, 2023, 12:16 AM
photoman12001
quote:
Originally posted by lyman: keep in mind I am a dealer now , and at one time worked for another company that sold Kimbers, Dan Wesson and others,
we (those behind the counter) had a saying,
friends don't let friends buy Kimbers,
why,
if we got in 10 1911's, regardless of model, or caliber, 1 or 2 would be broken out of the box,
by broke, I mean you take it out the box, drop the mag, check the chamber , and then check the serial to the box,
go to reinsert the mag, and it would not work,
I taught a handful of guys (and gals) how to pull a 1911 mag release, take it apart, clean it up, and reinstall,
then they almost always worked,
something as simple as a mag catch that was missed, often, but QC,
and about every 2 or 3rd batch, a customer would come back and we would have to send one back to the factory for something ,
of all the brands, for the 5 yrs I worked there, Kimber was #2 for send backs, (Taurus #1, but they have significantly improved after the class action lawsuit,, and now are better, return wise)
never sent a DW back, never sent a Springfield Armory back, never sent a Colt back (tho rarely saw a Colt in 9mm)
Do you think this is related to the number of pistols Kimber builds/sells?
I feel like gun displays usually have an abundance of Kimber 1911s, noticeably more than other brands. I was in Cabela’s today buying ammo for the range trip and they had a bunch of Kimber 1911s. Maybe they’re bound to have more duds based on the numbers or they’re producing more than they can reasonably quality control.
Congrats on your selection of the Valor. That's how I would've picked 'em had I been quicker to respond to your initial post. Kimber 1911s are generally reliable these days, though there seem to be occasional YouTubers complaining about the lack of durability with various 1911 Kimbers that they've purchased. Don't own a Kimber myself--or the Valor, for that matter--so I can't speak about the shooting experience with either. But there's very little question in my mind that a DW will be better built than the typical Kimber just from handling them from within our shop's inventory.
-MG
August 11, 2023, 09:46 AM
lyman
quote:
Originally posted by photoman12001:
quote:
Originally posted by lyman: keep in mind I am a dealer now , and at one time worked for another company that sold Kimbers, Dan Wesson and others,
we (those behind the counter) had a saying,
friends don't let friends buy Kimbers,
why,
if we got in 10 1911's, regardless of model, or caliber, 1 or 2 would be broken out of the box,
by broke, I mean you take it out the box, drop the mag, check the chamber , and then check the serial to the box,
go to reinsert the mag, and it would not work,
I taught a handful of guys (and gals) how to pull a 1911 mag release, take it apart, clean it up, and reinstall,
then they almost always worked,
something as simple as a mag catch that was missed, often, but QC,
and about every 2 or 3rd batch, a customer would come back and we would have to send one back to the factory for something ,
of all the brands, for the 5 yrs I worked there, Kimber was #2 for send backs, (Taurus #1, but they have significantly improved after the class action lawsuit,, and now are better, return wise)
never sent a DW back, never sent a Springfield Armory back, never sent a Colt back (tho rarely saw a Colt in 9mm)
Do you think this is related to the number of pistols Kimber builds/sells?
I feel like gun displays usually have an abundance of Kimber 1911s, noticeably more than other brands. I was in Cabela’s today buying ammo for the range trip and they had a bunch of Kimber 1911s. Maybe they’re bound to have more duds based on the numbers or they’re producing more than they can reasonably quality control.
during the Cootie Times, Kimbers were always available, and yes, I think they pushed production and dropped a bit (maybe just overwhelmed ) in QC,
https://www.chesterfieldarmament.com/
August 11, 2023, 10:37 AM
ensigmatic
I've two Kimbers: A 10mm Kimber Custom II GFO and a Kimber Rimfire Target.
They both needed a bit of work by my 1911 smith to make them run 100%. Other than that they've been fine shooters.
I asked my 1911 smith about Kimber. "They're neither no better nor no worse than any other production 1911" was his response.
That being said: If you really want a truly wonderful 1911-ish 9mm shooter: Staccato 2011
"America is at that awkward stage. It's too late to work within the system,,,, but too early to shoot the bastards." -- Claire Wolfe "If we let things terrify us, life will not be worth living." -- Seneca the Younger, Roman Stoic philosopher
August 11, 2023, 10:46 AM
abnmacv
My experience is that buying a quality handgun, within a person's price range, is the best strategy in the long run. When you get a quality handgun you have a reliable partner for life. Can't say enough great things about my Ed Browns.
U.S. Army 11F4P Vietnam 69-70 NRA Life Member
August 11, 2023, 11:37 AM
photoman12001
quote:
Originally posted by abnmacv: My experience is that buying a quality handgun, within a person's price range, is the best strategy in the long run. When you get a quality handgun you have a reliable partner for life. Can't say enough great things about my Ed Browns.
Chatting with the guy who sold me the Valor I think he went from Dan Wesson to Ed Brown/Les Baer to Wilson Combat. Stuff in the BUL/Springfield Armory/Kimber range is more than adequate for my “needs” and budget. I really grabbed the Valor because it seemed to be a pretty good price for a pistol I like a lot. It jumped me to the next tier for an amount I could swing. I’ve really liked the Wilson Combats that I’ve handled but I’d need a significant life change to justify that much on a single pistol. $1500 is my cap for a single pistol at this time. I did go a bit over that to acquire the P210 Target. I justified it because it came with 5 magazines and a Negrini case. I also fear those will become difficult to get in the future. I’ve had to sell a few things to make the Valor & P210 purchases.
I do love the look of the two-tone wood grips that came on the Valor but a set of G10 is definitely in its future. I swapped the BUL's grips onto it briefly. I'm thinking a set of these in black cherry: https://vzgrips.com/products/v...size-1911-grips.html
Not a fan of too much red. Those BUL grips look good. Wood double diamonds always look classy and add some texture.
Totally disagree with that gunsmith up above. DW is way better everything than Kimber but you are paystub big for it. DW is the non custom production gun sweet spot.
August 11, 2023, 01:57 PM
photoman12001
quote:
Originally posted by pedropcola: Not a fan of too much red. Those BUL grips look good. Wood double diamonds always look classy and add some texture.
Totally disagree with that gunsmith up above. DW is way better everything than Kimber but you are paystub big for it. DW is the non custom production gun sweet spot.
If they have a deeper red like is shown on the site I think they'll add a nice, subtle pop of color. I definitely don't want anything bright red. Something other than green or grey will be nice. I've got a lot of that. I agree that the BUL grips look good on it though.
I have like my Kimber 9mm 1911 a lot. I have a Stainless Target II. I replaced the front sight, added a mag funnel (part of the mainspring housing), a new slide release, changed the extractor, and did a light trigger job. None of those were needed, but made it a better gun for IDPA.
The fish is mute, expressionless. The fish doesn't think because the fish knows everything.
August 11, 2023, 03:41 PM
photoman12001
quote:
Originally posted by jhe888: I have like my Kimber 9mm 1911 a lot. I have a Stainless Target II. I replaced the front sight, added a mag funnel (part of the mainspring housing), a new slide release, changed the extractor, and did a light trigger job. None of those were needed, but made it a better gun for IDPA.
If I can ID some stuff to sell I might end up with the Kimber too. I like the idea of having a government 1911 in addition to the commanders. I MUST sell some stuff though. It's been sitting with that FFL for a while so I doubt it will go anywhere soon. I'm definitely glad I did the Valor first though. It's a beauty.
Originally posted by JonDaddy82: Any possibility of talking you into a DWX if you're looking for something unique that's in 9mm?
That’s a pretty darn cool but I was specifically looking at 9mm 1911s.
I was looking a CZ TS2 locally too but ruled it out because I wanted a “nicer” 9mm 1911 right now. I still might grab it if I sell some other stuff. I really liked it.
I’ve got some less common 9mm pistols already. For example: a couple of HK P7M8s, SIG P210, S&W 3906/CS9D/3953.
I originally had a similar decision: I passed on a Kimber Royal and eventually purchased a DW Valor in blue. I’m over 7K rnds with absolutely zero gun-related malfunctions. I also have a Colt Wiley Clapp Government to compare it to. The fit and finish are much more refined on the Valor but the reliability is even.
August 12, 2023, 12:12 PM
photoman12001
quote:
Originally posted by CAR: I have a Colt Combat Unit 9mm, it's a fantastic gun.
I know it’s a 5” barrel against the 4.25” of the commanders but the P210 is a big step up. It handles recoil so well. The extra weight contributes to this but its more than that. The P210 is a phenomenal pistol.
This message has been edited. Last edited by: photoman12001, 