Just a heads up. I have been wanting to convert my USP Expert 45 to LEM since about 5 minutes after buying it. The USP trigger even in the Expert is nothing to get real excited about. LEM conversions have been nowhere to be found for quite awhile now. All of a sudden they are multiple places. Although surprisingly the actual HK Webstore still doesn't have them which sucks because they are almost always the best price.

I am really looking forward to getting this Expert done. HK DA/SA is a really mediocre trigger for a thousand dollar gun.

quote:

trigger even in the Expert is nothing to get real excited about.

You got that right. That's their Match trigger.

I do get a chuckle out of that. It is a rockstar gun with a garage band trigger.

I disagree with the connotation of the Match Trigger.
Maybe it is just me being used to and trained well on the HK Match trigger but I shoot it extremely well, even as well as CZ, 1911 or Sig.
True ~ it does not feel as a precision piece of machinery like the others but it is very predictable and accurate to me.

I’d recommend taking a look at the 4.1 cda lem along with Grayguns short reset kit if you are trying to get everything out of the HK Lem trigger. Shortens the initial take-up by a third and reduces reset by about the same.

Well it’s predictable. I think that is kind of nonsensical though. It isn’t a “match” trigger in any classically accepted definition. It has a rough, hitch-y take up. Nothing match about that. Predictable? Sure, I can count the hitches till it breaks. Lol

Let’s face it. The biggest reason they call it “Match” is because it has an over travel screw.

Is it shootable? Of course it is. It’s a big , heavy, 45 with great adjustable sights and a fitted barrel.

I have always been tempted to go that direction. Almost all my HK’s came factory LEM and I swapped some springs here and there. Never went full up 4.1 though. Hmm. Might have to ponder. I have the GG short reset in a couple of them.

My intention was to leave the match trigger in and go somewhere between light LEM and TGS LEM. Heavy LEM blows.

Maybe I have carrot fingers but I’ve compared my USP Expert trigger side/side with my 220 Sport and mastershop X5 triggers. There’s almost no difference between them. Even my Delta Gold Cup is only slightly better. That said, I love an LEM trigger on my P2000sk. Takes some getting use to but once I did, it’s my preference.

Well I can tell you this. You have carrot fingers.

Just kidding. The SA pull is fine. Crisp, decent weight, blah blah blah. The DA stroke is not. As you pull the trigger you can literally, I mean literally, count the hitches where it catches on its way to sear release. Comparing to a 1911 doesn't make a lot of sense because it's not apples to apples. You can only compare the SA to the SA, which I will say your Gold Cup doesn't have a great trigger then. My customized Series 80 and both my Dan Wessons have a noticeably better pull than my Expert. It is totally useable but not match in any way. My competition guns with trigger jobs have match triggers. This ain't that.

HK triggers from the factory range from poor to meh. That is about it. I could pull out plenty of factory guns from multiple manufacturers that have a better stock trigger than the Expert from HK, which they market as an upgraded gun, fitted barrel, Match trigger, etc.

We all have shot "match" triggers. This is a decent duty trigger. Beretta 92X's all have better DA strokes straight out of the box. Smooth. Long as are Beretta pulls but smooth, fairly light too now that they ship with D springs.

I don't hate the trigger. It just isn't a "match" trigger compared to the hundred other guns I have shot that actually have match grade triggers. YMMV.

H&K's mediocre to horrible triggers have kept me from owning one. There have been a couple that I picked up and thought, "yeah, this feels pretty good" and then I try the trigger, think "yuck", and immediately put it back down. I agree the LEM is better than the DA/SA, but it's still not enough to compel me to spend what they ask for those things, especially not when Sigs, Berettas, CZs, and even Glocks exist.

quote:

Originally posted by 92fstech:
H&K's mediocre to horrible triggers have kept me from owning one. There have been a couple that I picked up and thought, "yeah, this feels pretty good" and then I try the trigger, think "yuck", and immediately put it back down. I agree the LEM is better than the DA/SA, but it's still not enough to compel me to spend what they ask for those things, especially not when Sigs, Berettas, CZs, and even Glocks exist.

We all like what we like and mostly it’s what you are used to. I like Sig, older S&W and HKs in semi auto. S&W in revolvers. Glock is ok. Ditto Beretta and CZ. I don’t love them. It seems Beretta fans love them. The gun and trigger are only ok to me. I truly think it’s what you started with and got used to unless your a world class shooter, of which I am not.

This reminds me of when I bought my Daniel Defense M4V4. It is a Rockstar of a rifle. The trigger was a Govt. Issue (garage band). I replaced it with a Geisselle 2-stage.

I just need the LEM elbow spring to convert my P30 v3 to v4.1 LEM. Stupid thing is out of stock everywhere.

quote:

Originally posted by Lunasee:
This reminds me of when I bought my Daniel Defense M4V4. It is a Rockstar of a rifle. The trigger was a Govt. Issue (garage band). I replaced it with a Geisselle 2-stage.

This is when clinging to "mil-spec" is a negative. For the premiums they charge, DD should at least install a better trigger in their ARs. Every other AR maker now puts in some sort of enhanced trigger. Is DD still stuck with mil-spec trigger on their current production rifles?

On that other forum there are pages beyond count of defenders of poor (HK) triggers under the idea that a heavy gritty trigger is how the German engineers wanted it for combat reliability. Ugh.

DD stays that way because it is cheaper and the market will buy whatever they make, or at least they would.

Mediocre triggers aren't something you get "used" to without cost. If you get "used" to poor triggers and then upgrade that trigger, you will post better times, accuracy, everything.

Bad triggers can/will force you to nail the fundamentals. That is a plus, but if you then use though better fundamentals on a better trigger you will shoot better. It is fairly quantifiable.

Parts came in yesterday but I went to a Foreigner concert so I haven't installed them yet.

Ohh HK triggers do indeed mostly suck. No doubt about that. That said I run them just fine and have acclimated to them over the years and besides they damn sure will make you a better shooter with other guns.

As for the “cheerleaders” who can never see any wrong……sigh. You get a pass if that’s all you’ve ever known but outside of that folks without the capability of critical thought to call out the good and the bad of ANYTHING annoy the beejezus out of me. HK makes FANTASTIC pistols……that certainly have their flaws. GLOCK makes absolutely incredible pistols…..that are far from “perfection”. The F150 is a helluva truck…….with a whole bunch of little flaws.

I will say the P30 gets a bit of a bad rap for its trigger. The reset sucks but the trigger pull is fairly smooth and the break isn’t as bad as some of the other HK pistols. Its no SIG by a long shot but its not nearly as bad as it’s made out to be.

I don't have much HK pistol experience outside of P30's but I've never been a fan of HK DA/SA triggers. That said, with a few simple changes that are available off the shelf I'm a massive fan of LEM triggers in the P30 platform. My P30's and P30SK's with LEM trigger, Grayguns short reset, Grayguns flat trigger, and nickel flat sear spring are absolutely outstanding.

That is true. Throwing a couple hundred bucks of Grayguns into an HK makes a nearly perfect gun (my LEM P30 is a beaut and easy to shoot well).

I only own two DA/SA (whatever variant of the moment that is lol) HK’s. A USPc 9mm and my Expert 45. The Expert is getting converted soon to a Match LEM. The USPc is staying DA/SA but I swapped detent plates so it is decocker only which fits my carry style better than safety/decocker. Otherwise I try to avoid TDA in HK by going the LEM route.

I’m lazy. I don’t want to have to work harder with a trigger when there is an easy albeit expensive solution.

I like really good triggers. Sue me.

quote:

Originally posted by pedropcola:
On that other forum there are pages beyond count of defenders of poor (HK) triggers under the idea that a heavy gritty trigger is how the German engineers wanted it for combat reliability. Ugh.

Then, what's the point of making Match triggers on their higher-end guns? And, why are they still lukewarm? Lol. Fan boys.

quote:

DD stays that way because it is cheaper and the market will buy whatever they make, or at least they would.

Cheaper, yet charging a premium. Had one of their rifles several years ago. Sold it. Never looked back. Don't care how good the rest of their rifles is.

BCM is as about mil-spec as you can get. They went into length describing the heart of their hardware. But still, every single one of their lower is now equipped with their enhanced (PNT) trigger. Been that way for a long time. And, the market also buys all that BCM makes. No excuses for DD's strategy, except for being cheap.

Converted it tonight. My oh my can I struggle with HK innards.

Nice trigger. I was pleased with the results. Now I only have one TDA HK.