I've heard some good things about the STI Staccato line of pistols. I can't keep all the models straight so I'm assuming they're all fairly similar -- correct me if I'm wrong.

My experience with 9mm STI 2011s (pre-Staccato) has been roughly this:
- Amazingly easy to shoot accurately. Laser beam is right.
- Good ergonomics. Like a slightly chubby 1911, especially compared to my thin grips/short trigger setup.
- Really spring sensitive, especially with the magazine and RecoilMaster springs. It seems both of these have about a 3000 service life before you start getting failures to go into battery and failures to lock back on an empty mag.
- Expensive magazines with weird feedlip issues. I heard this is fixed but I remember reading plenty of forum posts about the right ways to tune the feed lips on these guns to make them work right. For a $100 magazine.

Most Staccatos I've seen are using a Commander-length slide and have extensive slide lightening cuts. Is this the "fix" for some of the issues I've seen? I've only shot 2011s with Government-length slides.

Every couple of years it seems some big-name group adopts a custom 1911 platform for their sidearm. FBI HRT, MEU(SOC), and so on. Seems to last for a few years until the gunsmiths get sick and tired of chasing 1911 demons (or face budget cuts) and then they go back to Glocks.

From an operational analysis standpoint I'm guessing the lifecycle cost per round fired from a 1911 is like 2-3x that of a Glock after you include all of the additional effort to maintain the platform, not to mention purchase price. Does the Staccato fix this or is STI basically giving these thing away to SWAT teams in order to bring down the cost and buy market share/recognition?

I don't think that the STI does anything "better" for real uses. From what I have been reading/seeing, STI has crushed the marketing aspect. Not much else you mentioned has changed.

quote:

Originally posted by caneau:
Every couple of years it seems some big-name group adopts a custom 1911 platform for their sidearm. FBI HRT, MEU(SOC), and so on. Seems to last for a few years until the gunsmiths get sick and tired of chasing 1911 demons (or face budget cuts) and then they go back to Glocks.

Come again?

FBI HRT and FBI SWAT have used Springfield Professional 1911s for over two decades.

MEUSOC/MARSOC has used a few different flavors of 1911 since 1985, and currently continue to use a 1911 in the form of the Colt M45A1.

USMS SOG just switched to the STI Staccato-P from the Springfield Professionals they had used for over a decade.

Neither of the big name groups you mention, nor another high profile example, have "gotten sick of 1911s and gone back to Glocks" over their past decades of 1911 use, at least as a whole. Granted, there's some individual leeway among members of these units, and some choose to carry alternate handguns.


A 1911/2011 isn't an ideal choice for most run-of-the-mill soldiers or LEOs, for a variety of reasons. Which is why the USMC, FBI, and USMS don't issue them agency-wide, instead sticking to more mundane handguns for general issue. But it's a perfectly good option for high-level shooters in specialized units, if they decide that it's what best meets their specific needs.

(Plus, there's the whole "the elite guys get the cool, expensive, prestigious guns" aspect as well. )

quote:

Originally posted by jljones:
I don't think that the STI does anything "better" for real uses. From what I have been reading/seeing, STI has crushed the marketing aspect. Not much else you mentioned has changed.

Thanks. How have they fared in your classes?

My observation is has been that day 2 or 3 of a longer class are where the differences between what works and what doesn't come out. Limp wristing from exhaustion, a lack of cleaning, and more advanced shooting scenarios all seems to play havoc on firearms that would otherwise function great at the range.

I'm also very curious how the Staccato compared to the DWX when it finally hits the streets. The use of CZ-style magazines and a CZ-inspired linkless upper appear to be on track to solve of my observed reliability issues with double stack 1911s.

If you haven't seen it 10-8 performance's (Hilton Yam) channel on YouTube has a lot of good, detailed STI Staccato content

quote:

Originally posted by RogueJSK:

quote:

Originally posted by caneau:
Every couple of years it seems some big-name group adopts a custom 1911 platform for their sidearm. FBI HRT, MEU(SOC), and so on. Seems to last for a few years until the gunsmiths get sick and tired of chasing 1911 demons (or face budget cuts) and then they go back to Glocks.

Come again?

FBI HRT and FBI SWAT have used Springfield Professional 1911s for over two decades.

MEUSOC/MARSOC has used a few different flavors of 1911 since 1985, and currently continue to use a 1911 in the form of the Colt M45A1.

USMS SOG just switched to the STI Staccato-P from the Springfield Professionals they had used for over a decade.

Neither of the big name groups you mention, nor another high profile example, have "gotten sick of 1911s and gone back to Glocks" over their past decades of 1911 use, at least as a whole. Granted, there's some individual leeway among members of these units, and some choose to carry alternate handguns.


A 1911/2011 isn't an ideal choice for most run-of-the-mill soldiers or LEOs, for a variety of reasons. Which is why the USMC, FBI, and USMS don't issue them agency-wide, instead sticking to more mundane handguns for general issue. But it's a perfectly good option for high-level shooters in specialized units, if they decide that it's what best meets their specific needs.

(Plus, there's the whole "the elite guys get the cool, expensive, prestigious guns" aspect as well. )

I was also under the impression that most 3 letter agencies dropped 1911s. I do know a local big PD that standardized on GLOCK’s and they went from 5 armorers to one. That says something.

Yep. As stated, the 1911 is not an ideal choice for agency-wide issue, and no 3 letter agency does so. But there are a number of small specialized units that have used them for years, and continue to do so.

I only personally know of one LE agency that continues to issue 1911s agency-wide, and it's because they're the PD for Berryville, Arkansas, the hometown of Wilson Combat and Nighthawk Custom. So accessing armorer support isn't an issue.

Wow -- 5 armorers to 1 is an incredible cost savings. Total cost to employ an armorer with salary, benefits, training, facilities, tools, etc. is probably around $100,000. Plus I bet they did away with a "supervisor" to manage the work of 5 people. You're probably talking half a million dollars in savings. That's huge for all but maybe 10 of the largest police departments.

Total annual cost out the door for a patrol officer is around $200,000-$250,000 when you factor in the car, equipment, etc. I can't imagine a department saying "I'd rather have everyone carrying 1911s instead of two more officers on the street."

Frankly, I have only observed two come through since the hub bub started 8 months ago with the USMS SOG adopting the Staccato.

They seem to me to be like any other 1911. If the user is a aficionado, the gun will run for the most part. If the user is a striker fired convert who treats the gun just like a striker fired pistol, not so much.

YES. Some three letter agencies still allow the 1911 for their special people. Inside of those "special people" still isn't widely used. It isn't 1980 where everybody that is anybody has a 1911.

On the flip side, I read on the USMC MARSOC IG that the Marines just purchased 12,000 Colt M45s for issue to special operations. The Marines must be flush with cash right now, because they just got free Glock 19s from JSOC a couple of years ago.

quote:

Originally posted by jljones:
Frankly, I have only observed two come through since the hub bub started 8 months ago with the USMS SOG adopting the Staccato.

They seem to me to be like any other 1911. If the user is a aficionado, the gun will run for the most part. If the user is a striker fired convert who treats the gun just like a striker fired pistol, not so much.

YES. Some three letter agencies still allow the 1911 for their special people. Inside of those "special people" still isn't widely used. It isn't 1980 where everybody that is anybody has a 1911.

On the flip side, I read on the USMC MARSOC IG that the Marines just purchased 12,000 Colt M45s for issue to special operations. The Marines must be flush with cash right now, because they just got free Glock 19s from JSOC a couple of years ago.

We're approaching the end of the fiscal year and most of us only had 9 months to spend our budgets due to the Continuing Resolution. Everyone is trying to spend $$ like crazy.

Those M45s are effectively the Colt Rail Guns based on the XSE/Colt Competition platform, except without the Series 80 system. They're far "cruder" than any STI or Springfield Professional I've handled, but probably more reliable. Say what you want about Colt, they're pretty good at making a steel, 5", .45 ACP, single stack 1911. I don't recall ever having a stock, well-maintained Colt 1911 jam with ball .45 ACP ammunition.

If I had to issue 1911s to a few thousand Marines, the M45 design would be near the top of my list. Accurate enough to be respectable, but enough of a commodity you can hose them down with CLP, scrub with a toothbrush, and have them still keep on working.

quote:

Those M45s are effectively the Colt Rail Guns based on the XSE/Colt Competition platform, except without the Series 80 system.

No, the M45A1s are Series 80 guns from the Colt Custom Shop.

I use a STI EDGE for my USPSA stuff, and if I were still carrying a gun for a living and could carry anything, I’d carry an STI.

9mm,40 or 45 wouldn’t matter. I prefer the smooth slides w/o holes or extra fancy stuff, but the guns with them work just fine. I shoot USPSA with a few of STIs employees and they all run something similar 2011 in 40 to get the major power factor For Scoring, but I wouldn’t turn down a Staccato.

They used to make a 2011 with a commander sized slide in 9mm a few years ago and I guess the staccato P is the newest version...very nice looking gun.

I was gonna buy one for my edc since I’m no longer bound by policy and it forbid single action guns, but I couldn’t come off 2 grand when I have a g19 that does the job the same....and it was purchased at cost....

quote:

Originally posted by Belgian Blue:

quote:

Those M45s are effectively the Colt Rail Guns based on the XSE/Colt Competition platform, except without the Series 80 system.

No, the M45A1s are Series 80 guns from the Colt Custom Shop.

You're thinking of the Custom Shop CQB:
https://www.colt.com/series/CUSTOM_SHOP_SERIES
https://www.colt.com/detail-pa...t-45acp-5-7rd-blkfde

Marine M45 - O1070M45 - this is the version that's issued just without the USMC rollmarks
Custom Shop Version O1070CQB - Custom Shop tuned version

From gunworld.com by way of G&R Tactical

"But instead of getting a production model Marine 1911 pistol for the civilian asking price of $1,995, you will get a boatload more for your investment. Colt Custom Shop gunsmith Matthew LaBonte walked me through the added steps that they will take with each consumer weapon to make a great thing even better.

According to Matt, some of these added steps include: custom-fitting the slide to the receiver; cleaning the face of the sear and back-cutting it for a shorter roll; cleaning up the hammer hooks for smoothness; reducing the trigger pull from the USMC 4 pounds standard spec down to 3 pounds; cleaning up the barrel sides, hood, radial locking lugs, and lower locking lugs to insure a more consistent lockup…all painstakingly done by hand."


Colt marketing aside, the biggest external difference I can tell aside from finish is the Custom Shop version has front strap checkering, which is a very nice upgrade.

quote:

STI Staccato for "Real" Uses

Can you explain the thread title, I'm puzzled by it?

Could have sworn they were all Series 80 from the Custom Shop. I thought the Marines were getting the same thing less the color variations and front strap checkering. Maybe I got lost in the marketing.

I've got a two-tone black over gray Custom Shop CQB M45A1. Nice to know about the extra custom work. It's got a great trigger and excellent slide/frame/barrel fit. Overall, it seems more of a true Custom Shop gun than my 1990s era Special Combat, which is a tack driver in it's own right.

My recollection is coming back to me now. There are two different M45s. Those from the Custom Shop and those from standard production.

Getting old... I don't recommend it.

quote:

Originally posted by cas:

quote:

STI Staccato for "Real" Uses

Can you explain the thread title, I'm puzzled by it?

Other than going to the range to put holes in paper.

I would say that there are "pre-conceived notions" driving Post #1
My 2 cents on that.

I have an STI Edge and I as well like the iconic slab sides over the ventilated Staccato slide.
Also the 2K price tag on the Edge was more palatable than the 3K Staccato price tag.

Dawson told me I got the last Edge 9mm.
As for the mags, STI is on Gen2 now.

So if the OP wants a double-stack 1911, there are several to look at.
And don't forget BUL Armory.

quote:

Originally posted by DirectDrive:
I would say that there are "pre-conceived notions" driving Post #1
My 2 cents on that.

I have an STI Edge and I as well like the iconic slab sides over the ventilated Staccato slide.
Also the 2K price tag on the Edge was more palatable than the 3K Staccato price tag.

Dawson told me I got the last Edge 9mm.
As for the mags, STI is on Gen2 now.

So if the OP wants a double-stack 1911, there are several to look at.
And don't forget BUL Armory.

The OP has put many rounds through an STI Edge 9mm. Those notions are based on my experience in large part with said 9mm STI Edge

But to your point, I'm curious to see if and how they are better. The STI Edge is a range toy. It's wonderful fun if I ever put a red dot on there I'd give more than a few AR-15 shooters on the range a run for their money. But it's definitely not a gun I'd trust to work flawlessly under adverse conditions.

By the way, mags are now around 50 bucks now.

Bob

STI changed hands in 2018ish. Any gun made before 2018 is "old" there are some transitional guns (old models with new ownership but pre-Staccato), and then obviously the new stuff has been moving to the Staccato name since then.

I have a transitional STI Tactical 4" and a new Staccato C2. Both are outstanding guns both in fit and finish and performance. There are no MIM parts on them - everything is machined. The critical parts fits are well done. The triggers are very, very good. The current ("Gen 2") magazines are worlds better than anything that predated them. There's a lengthy Primary and Secondary podcast with Buck Pierson from STI where a lot of this, and particularly the magazines, gets addressed.

In the 9mm guns, STI/Staccato has done some playing with barrel and slide lengths. The current Staccato P is a 4.45" gun. Last year's was a 4.15" gun. The user base demands a 5" bushing barrel gun but they (Staccato) feels that they just can't be made reliable enough and the extra slide mass increases cycling time and perceived recoil. There are a couple 9mm 5" guns out there, but they really believe in the intermediate lengths in 9mm.

All of the above said, the gun is still a partially hand-fit 2011. It's not a Glock or an M&P or a 320 or a HiPoint. It's going to need preventative maintenance, it may teeth a bit while you break it in, and it needs to be kept lubricated. If you're willing to put a little minimal effort in, they should serve you well and they're really great shooting guns, particularly with a red dot.

Jones is also right about Staccato doing a good job with the marketing. Part of that is bringing on some high credibility guys like Hilton Yam and Mike Panone. Panone recently ran his Staccato P through ten or twelve thousand rounds of mostly steel case ammo with only periodic lube and no cleaning. Aaron Cowan has recently reviewed the Staccato P and XC with favorable opinions.

Bottom line: if you don't mind putting in some work on your Staccato, it will work for you.