Raider, those are serious stories but your storytelling had me cracking up. Well done sir. Very descriptive.

quote:

Originally posted by RR:
Raider, those are serious stories but your storytelling had me cracking up. Well done sir. Very descriptive.

LOL! Glad you enjoyed 'em, gotta say I wasn't laughing at the time!

June 16th, 2007.

Sig P220 was my carry of choice at the time. I had 6 different versions and kept them on a pistol rack on the top shelf of the safe. The one I carried was an older West German original with folded slide and sweet smooth trigger. I thought I had put enough rounds through a couple others that the triggers might finally be smoothed enough and it would be a good day on the range to compare them. But of course I just had to compare them then and there too. After following all the rules on the first 4 guns, I pulled out my carry gun and completely skipped all rules but point in a safe direction.

That was the day I earned the ire of PETA, People for The Ethical Treatment of Appliances. 185gr Winchester Silvertip through the side of a late model Whirlpool dryer. Punctured the tumbler and bounced around the inside a bit leaving a few dents. Some thousand mile an hour tape and the dryer ran fine for another 6 years.

Unlike so many, I distinctly remember not how load it was, but my brain instantly registered that it didn't sound right. This was in our single car garage all doors closed. Can't say my ears rang or that I considered it loud, but 20yrs wrenching on Navy jets and helos might do that to me. To this day I can still hear myself telling me it didn't sound right, it wasn't the click I was expecting. Interestingly I also think because of the way it registered, I have not experienced any flinching while shooting since that day, or at least I am more hyper aware of when I expect a gun to bang vs click. I dunno for sure. But I do know it made me more acutely focused of my firearm handling.

I had to replace a towel rack bracket. Once. Let’s just say that if you had any concerns about Hornady FTX over-penetrating through drywall in a service caliber handgun, I think that’s not a huge concern.

As they say, there are two types of shooters: Those have had their ND, and those haven’t had theirs yet. Glad nobody was hurt with yours.

Fortunately I have never had a mishap myself but had a friend after cleaning his revolver thinking it was empty took aim and shot a hole in my TV. Reminders are good and makes me think about safety which is always a good thing.

I believe important points of the 4 firearms safety rules are getting lost here.

A common factor in NEGLIGENT discharges -- they aren't accidental -- is a violation of two or three rules at the same time:
- Always treat a gun as loaded, regardless of whether you think it's loaded or not.
- Keep your finger off the trigger until sights are on target.
- Never point the gun at anything you aren't willing to destroy and take full responsibility for.
And maybe even know your target and its surroundings.

Obviously, an ND means the gun was loaded.

Obviously, we don't normally consider a TV, wall, furniture, painting, floor, ceiling, or vehicle a target. So hitting one of these things isn't a safe direction. Period. OK, luck was working, and no human or animal was struck by a bullet. But if "safe" is defined as no living beast was killed, then our definition of "safe direction" is really messed up.

"Safe direction" means a target -- could be a piece of paper or steel, maybe a clay pigeon, an animal during the proper season, maybe an invader threatening our humble abodes. But virtually anything else isn't a truly safe direction.

quote:

Originally posted by jaaron11:

quote:

Originally posted by PASig:
A magazine with a round still in it looks very different than an empty one, how did you miss that?

Not the OP, but your eyes can play tricks on you, especially if you give a half glance and don't look closely. If you expect to see an empty magazine, your brain may well ignore the round at the top and register it as an empty magazine. Basically, replacing the real image with your anticipated image.

This ^^^^^

How often have any of us been looking for something, couldn't find it to save our souls, had wife or somebody else hold it up and say "Is this it?" and, sure enough, it was. And it'd been right in front of your eyes or, during your search, you'd looked right at it and did not see it.

Or pulled out in traffic, had a near miss, and asked "Where the hell did he come from?" and it was obvious they had to have been there when you pulled out, but your brain didn't register their presence.

Or gone looking for your glasses, high and low, only to find you'd been wearing them all along? Or "Where the hell are my keys?!?!", start looking, then realize they're in your hand?

It is said there are two kinds of people who regularly handle firearms and claim never to have had a ND: Liars and those whose turn just hasn't come up yet. This is why we have multiple rules, and why they must all be followed, all the time, because, eventually, we will fail to follow one of them and the others will be there to save our ass. Or somebody else's.

quote:

Originally posted by fritz:

Obviously, we don't normally consider a TV, wall, furniture, painting, floor, ceiling, or vehicle a target. So hitting one of these things isn't a safe direction. Period. OK, luck was working, and no human or animal was struck by a bullet. But if "safe" is defined as no living beast was killed, then our definition of "safe direction" is really messed up.

"Safe direction" means a target -- could be a piece of paper or steel, maybe a clay pigeon, an animal during the proper season, maybe an invader threatening our humble abodes. But virtually anything else isn't a truly safe direction.

I disagree 100%.

I don't put a target on my wall, but I have areas that are absolutely safe. I define safe as no one gets hurt. If a object in the house gets damaged, whether it's a box of MRE's or a TV, so be it, but it's safe it it can stop the round and doesn't present a danger to anyone else in or out of the hosue, that's a safe direction. This assumes that one knows what's downrange, and beyond, and both ricochet and overpenetration are considered.

I don't have a range in my house. I don't have a sandbox or bullet trap, and I do not put targets on my wall. If we relied upon that as the baseline criteria, then we'd be entirely unable to handle a firearm at home.

A target does not guarantee safety.

It only provides a point of aim.

It's absolutely true that this was a negligent discharge; I do not believe in "accidents." Only failures to stop the event. I was negligent.

I did, however, point the firearm in a safe direction, and I did know my backstop, and what lay beyond.

If you believe than a box of MREs and a wall in your house are safe directions, then by all means keep on keepin' on.

I wouldn't have pointed the firearm there if I didn't believe that. Moreover, if I didn't know that. Yes, it was a safe direction.

Since it was a safe direction, why did you lie to your wife? Why not show her exactly what occurred. See if she thinks it was a safe direction.

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The MRE's were something like chicken loaf

Justifiable.

quote:

Originally posted by fritz:
Since it was a safe direction, why did you lie to your wife? Why not show her exactly what occurred. See if she thinks it was a safe direction.

I didn't lie. I told her it was a primer. It was.

I didn't tell her the complete picture for the same reason that I don't tell her about most of my firearm purchases, and make them with cash. How I relate to my wife, however, isn't really a part of this discussion, or any of your business.

quote:

Originally posted by sns3guppy:
I didn't lie. I told her it was a primer. It was.

You lied. You know you lied. We know you lied. Call it what you want. You fired a live round in your house -- primer plus powder plus bullet.

Keep on keepin' on.

quote:

Originally posted by fritz:

quote:

Originally posted by sns3guppy:
I didn't lie. I told her it was a primer. It was.

You lied. You know you lied. We know you lied. Call it what you want. You fired a live round in your house -- primer plus powder plus bullet.

Keep on keepin' on.

Besides, OP chose to mention it when not even required to. I really don't care, but it's funny to see the mental gymnastics.