quote:

Originally posted by PowerSurge:
Nothing in the op stated anything negative about the parts from India, guys.

quote:

Originally posted by Voshterkoff:
Unless I am mistaken, quite a few SIG polymer parts are made in Israel. Between the amount of plastics made there and the CEOs history, it doesn’t shock me.

quote:

Originally posted by Voshterkoff:
Unless I am mistaken, quite a few SIG polymer parts are made in Israel. Between the amount of plastics made there and the CEOs history, it doesn’t shock me.

quote:

Originally posted by Grayguns:

...There are still some diehard guys who think SIGARMS and SIG SAUER should have been allowed to go bankrupt, selling dwindling numbers of boringly outdated, overly expensive products to a dying market...

-Bruce

quote:

Originally posted by Grayguns:

quote:

Originally posted by Voshterkoff:
Unless I am mistaken, quite a few SIG polymer parts are made in Israel. Between the amount of plastics made there and the CEOs history, it doesn’t shock me.

There are still some diehard guys who think SIGARMS and SIG SAUER should have been allowed to go bankrupt, selling dwindling numbers of boringly outdated, overly expensive products to a dying market.

Meanwhile, my friend Ron has built a nearly billion-dollar, stunningly innovative business employing scads of people in the United States, and overseas.

I like to remind folks of this reality when the whole vaguely xenophobic “SIG parts are made in (India / Israel ect.)!” subject is raised.

I’m glad they use IndoMim, and other contractors. I like being able to buy a P210A for under a thousand dollars which shoots as well or better than the original. I like not paying $800 for a SIG Pro. I like SIG SAUER being in business in the first place.

-Bruce

quote:

Originally posted by Belgian Blue:

quote:

Originally posted by Grayguns:

quote:

Originally posted by Voshterkoff:
Unless I am mistaken, quite a few SIG polymer parts are made in Israel. Between the amount of plastics made there and the CEOs history, it doesn’t shock me.

There are still some diehard guys who think SIGARMS and SIG SAUER should have been allowed to go bankrupt, selling dwindling numbers of boringly outdated, overly expensive products to a dying market.

Meanwhile, my friend Ron has built a nearly billion-dollar, stunningly innovative business employing scads of people in the United States, and overseas.

I like to remind folks of this reality when the whole vaguely xenophobic “SIG parts are made in (India / Israel ect.)!” subject is raised.

I’m glad they use IndoMim, and other contractors. I like being able to buy a P210A for under a thousand dollars which shoots as well or better than the original. I like not paying $800 for a SIG Pro. I like SIG SAUER being in business in the first place.

-Bruce

With all due respect, it really has nothing to do with being "vaguely xenophobic". Facts are facts. SIGs today don't have the same level of quality the older German products used to have. They aren't individually test fired and certified with a factory test target to indicate (1) that they function and (2) that they group to the manufacturer's specification.

I've been around long enough to see the old SIGs as pistols that were good to go right out of the box. In those days was laughable to consider having them tuned by a gunsmith. They were the guns I bought and shot while my Colts were back at the "Colt Custom Shop" for service.

Ron Cohan may have "saved" SIG Sauer from bankruptcy but in so doing he's pretty much destroyed the SIG Sauer name just as he did with Kimber.

Many of us recall the GSR and the host of issues associated with it. The 556 and the numerous and obvious manufacturing shortcuts taken in it's production history. We recall the P320 and the drop safe issues related to it. We had P220 series guns with US made stainless slides chewing up their alloy frames. We had instances with breaking takedown levers (courtesy of the MIM manufacture). Then there's the host of issues related to the P365's firing pins shearing in use.

We've had sights that drift back & forth in their dovetails and some of them departing their slides on the customer's first range session. I even recall a member here receiving his 556 back from Exeter all scratched up because some rocket surgeon at SIGARMS didn't put the carbine BETWEEN the two pieces of interlocking foam in the box prior to shipping back to the customer (who shouldn't have a problem with their product to begin with).

Yes Bruce, you are our resident Subject Matter Expert regarding SIG products and we're thankful you are with us. No doubt, you can recount numerous cases where you've encountered issues with German SIGs as well. P220ST and X5 extractor issues come to mind. I recall you posting that the X5 was race ready right out of the box. Except, well... Not so much. The extractor issue combined with SIG Sauer not supporting like it should. Germans screw up too (their 0 and 2 for world wars) but on balance, they turned out more consistent products. Speaking of support, there's the 556 again with SIG Sauer dropping their original design replacing it with an "improved" more modular version and ultimately dropping support for both in favor of the AR platform.

Bruce you and your company are among the very best at what you do, but to say the new SIG pistols are equal to the old ones I think is a bit disingenuous. SIG's current business model suits your interest because you offer bar stock upgrade parts for the Indian made MIM parts SIGs arrive to the customer with. SIG's current business model create a wealth of opportunities for people who work on them and offer aftermarket parts, so I'd say your point of view is a little different than the customer who just wants a quality product out of the box to defend themselves. Not to mention the Mil/LE professionals who depend on these guns for their work. Not all of us want to have to send a gun out for upgrades in order to have something equivalent to what used to come from SIG Sauer right out of the box.

We all have our individual perspectives. I understand why some companies cut corners and look for ways to manufacture their products to boost profits. It costs money to individually test fire each and every firearm before it's delivered to the customer. Most people would rather save a few bucks and avoid that extra expense. A lot of people are brand loyal and are happy to beta test a new product from their favorite brand. I suspect most people on here are that way. There are a few of us who expect better.