+4 on the dao pistols.
P250C has an excellent trigger, as does the Kahr K9. I beleive many in nypd adopted the K9 for a back up or off duty weapon. Both are surprisingly accurate. I also own the P290RS and the Bodyguard 380 . Both work well for deep concealment, however the long trigger pull and reset make them difficult to shoot accurately(for me)

I own eight hammer fired DAO pistols. Six Sigs, a S&W 3953 and a Seecamp .32 a.c.p. I have also owned a S&W 5946, Sig P250c in .40 and a P250f in ,45. If you live near Atlanta you are welcome to shoot my guns before you make a purchase.

Academy Sports still has new Sig P250 pistols in stock.

DAO is not popular in my area; such pistols are difficult to resale and have low resale values. I wouldn’t pay more than $300.00 for a used P250 unless it had a box full of accessories.

quote:

Originally posted by paulbriand:
+4 on the dao pistols.
P250C has an excellent trigger, as does the Kahr K9. I beleive many in nypd adopted the K9 for a back up or off duty weapon. Both are surprisingly accurate. I also own the P290RS and the Bodyguard 380 . Both work well for deep concealment, however the long trigger pull and reset make them difficult to shoot accurately(for me)

The NYPD did authorize the Kahr for awhile but then rescinded the order due to reliability issues.

quote:

Originally posted by Bulldog7972:

quote:

Originally posted by paulbriand:
+4 on the dao pistols.
P250C has an excellent trigger, as does the Kahr K9. I beleive many in nypd adopted the K9 for a back up or off duty weapon. Both are surprisingly accurate. I also own the P290RS and the Bodyguard 380 . Both work well for deep concealment, however the long trigger pull and reset make them difficult to shoot accurately(for me)

The NYPD did authorize the Kahr for awhile but then rescinded the order due to reliability issues.

Reliability or because they could’t make the trigger heavy enough...I have heard both.

IIRC, it was for reliability issues

quote:

Originally posted by Modern Day Savage:

quote:

Originally posted by Cous2492:
+1 for DAK.
In theory it's stupid.
In hands on shooting it's amazing.

I'm curious about this statement. Why is the DAK stupid in theory?

Because it it opposite of traditional hammer fired guns. The shorter reset point is heavier.

I know that Sig recommends shooting it like a DAO with a dull reset, and that's how I do it, but a lot of people do not.

quote:

Originally posted by Dusty78:

quote:

Originally posted by Bulldog7972:

quote:

Originally posted by paulbriand:
+4 on the dao pistols.
P250C has an excellent trigger, as does the Kahr K9. I beleive many in nypd adopted the K9 for a back up or off duty weapon. Both are surprisingly accurate. I also own the P290RS and the Bodyguard 380 . Both work well for deep concealment, however the long trigger pull and reset make them difficult to shoot accurately(for me)

The NYPD did authorize the Kahr for awhile but then rescinded the order due to reliability issues.

Reliability or because they could’t make the trigger heavy enough...I have heard both.

K9 worked fine when the soprano crew took out phil leotardo

Only issue I had with my CW9 was trying to sling shot the slide on a reload, usually was a no-go. If you didn't use the slide stop, it would hang up. The mags were a liability for sure, if you dropped one, they would self unload all the rounds for you. lol! Had one come apart in my pocket too....And don't get me started on the junk steel pins they use in the followers!

The Kahr K series is uber reliable.

I'd go to a range with a decent rental fleet and rent any model LEM, any model DAK, a Kahr and any other DOA they have on hand. See which trigger speaks to you.

DA/SA is also a great option as previously stated. A tuned DA trigger can be a beauty with the inherent increased safety under stress of the long and heavier 1st pull. The SA shots after sure are nice as well.

I standardized on DA/SA for carry and HD, just current personal preference.

quote:

Originally posted by Cous2492:

quote:

Originally posted by Modern Day Savage:

quote:

Originally posted by Cous2492:
+1 for DAK.
In theory it's stupid.
In hands on shooting it's amazing.

I'm curious about this statement. Why is the DAK stupid in theory?

Because it it opposite of traditional hammer fired guns. The shorter reset point is heavier.

I know that Sig recommends shooting it like a DAO with a dull reset, and that's how I do it, but a lot of people do not.

Fair enough...but I approach the concept from a different stand point, which leads me to believe that the DAK system is a stroke of genius.

Historically, from the time that gun manufacturers started to produce DA gun designs they have relied on both the longer trigger pull and the heavier trigger pull to provide the "safety" factor, especially on guns where the Safety mechanism (manual firing inhibitor) was omitted from the design. The longer heavier trigger pulls were the result of the DA mechanism, but the ancillary benefit was that these features also provided for a safety margin.

As the DAK is a DAO self-decocking design it has no need of an external safety lever, and the designer wisely distinguished that only one of the features, the longer trigger pull was necessary for the mechanism to operate safely and efficiently, allowing mechanical leverage to lighten the full length trigger pull significantly.

For those that choose to use the (OPTIONAL) shorter trigger reset point it doesn't have the same mechanical advantage and the trigger pull weight necessarily increases by a small amount...but I don't consider this a bad feature because the slightly heavier trigger pull weight now provides for a margin of safety for the shorter reset point.

Full trigger pull length provides safety margin for lighter pull weight.

Slightly heavier trigger pull weight provides safety margin for the shorter trigger reset pull length.

Mechanically and operationally, from a user stand point, I find this a brilliant design.

The only reason I haven't converted my fleet over to DAK is because, after years of training to become proficient on the DA/SA system, I think it would take me considerable time to reach the same level of proficiency...not to mention the expense. But, I hope to eventually devote the time and money to become DAK proficient.

Which DA/SA do you use?

I have both DAK and DA/SA Sigs and shoot both equally well for qualification or as in combat type shooting. For Bullseye shooting I prefer S/A. For carry my preference is the P220 Compact with DAK.

You can still find a SIG P250 used which is a good hammer-fired DAO if you avoid the first generation models.

Used Beretta 92Ds and Cougar D models are still around.

The SCCY pistols are hammer-fired, DAO pistols. The hammer is internal. The Keltec PF9 is as well.

quote:

Originally posted by rjksx1:
Which DA/SA do you use?

As with many who carry, it depends on conditions. When in the wilderness I carry a S&W 629. For urban/ suburban carry I've carried a SIG P229 for a short while but while I shoot the gun reasonably well I find that, as a big guy, the full size P226 grip shape, weight, and sight length suit me best...perhaps because I've been carrying it for decades...

...but as much as I prefer the full size P226 and dislike shooting sub-compact "mouse guns", sometimes the temperatures, environment, or clothing dictate what we can effectively carry. When conditions dictate that I carry a subcompact gun (health issues in recent years limit my options) I rely on a Kel-Tec P-32 DAO hammer-fired in a DeSantis pocket holster.

I have other guns that could fill these roles but these are the ones that fit me best and have proven to be reliable, accurate, and safe...and that I've become proficient with. I have no doubt that there are guns that could fill these roles for me.

I'm straying a bit from the parameters established in the OP...but, other than being a tad heavy, I really liked the HK P7 PSP squeeze cocker striker-fired as it seemed to be the best compromise in size and capacity while still maintaining reliability, accuracy, and safety (almost G19 like in size for me)...but unique in it's manual of arms. I found it to be a versatile gun capable of being carried in different ways and I found that it worked well carrying it for short periods in a coat pocket, except that it was heavy enough that it would cause that side of the jacket to swing out and bump me while walking...but admittedly it is an expensive heavy gun that requires some dedicated training time to become proficient with.

I, like you, think DAK is a phenomenal design. When I said that it sounds silly on paper, I was mostly talking about the general population of gun owners. I always tell people they have to shoot one before they knock it. Obviously, Sig was not selling DAK guns enough to keep them in their catalog, and the DAK police trade ins are always really cheap.

By the way, accuratelawenforcement.com has p239s, dak 357, for around $350. I picked one up a few weeks ago and has quickly become one of my favorite guns.

Where do you find police trade ins? though out of your state, i know of several stores throughout OH.

A Kahr K9 has always been on my short list but always eluded me.

The Kahr PM9 is currently on sale for $370ish...the PM not the CM. Smoking deal.


https://www.classicfirearms.co...arms-pm9093-pm9-dao/

quote:

The Kahr PM9 is currently on sale for $370ish...the PM not the CM. Smoking deal.

I would like at least 12 rounds.