SIG XM17/XM18 Army report

January 30, 2018, 09:34 AM

An interesting read about XM17/18 development with the Army.

http://www.dote.osd.mil/pub/re...pdf/army/2017mhs.pdf

January 30, 2018, 11:30 AM

cslinger

Does this kind of info exist for all the finalists? It would be interesting to see the issues brought to light/strengths and weaknesses of those platforms as well.

The double ejecting thing is strange. Bad magazine/lips opened up enough to spit a live cartridge out?

As for the “stoppages” it seems like those were largely failures to lock back on empty and my first thought and their finding was operator riding the slide stop. So really more of a training or slight modification issue. What I found odd, and maybe I read it wrong was that this occurred far more with the ball ammo vs the “special purpose ammo”. Different testers?

January 30, 2018, 11:36 AM

Il Cattivo

Did I misread that or is a high-thumb grip riding the slide lock lever the leading cause of failures documented in that summary?

January 30, 2018, 11:44 AM

cslinger

Yeah that’s what I understood too. What I found weird was why so different between ammo types. Wonder if the 124 grain NATO ball has more snap causing the lever being pushed on recoil vs the special purpose ammo maybe being milder???

January 30, 2018, 12:39 PM

toto

i've shot several thousand rounds trough differents P320 and never had a double ejection.
But i've encounter this problem with my P226, and it was a magazine problem.I think the spring was worn due to heavy use.

January 30, 2018, 01:08 PM

BuddyChryst

A double ejection can really only be a mag problem. There's only one place for rounds to go in the slide/frame. And there's intentionally only room for one round. You can't get one to hide somewhere.

January 30, 2018, 01:09 PM

soggy_spinout

Interesting...so the Army discovered in 2017 that their version of the 320 initially wasn't drop safe. So when did SIG really know that they had a problem with the gun? Had to be prior to the Omaha Outdoors video, considering that shortly after that vid was posted SIG was prompt in claiming that the MHS guns were safe and didn't suffer from the drop discharge problem (because now they had the lightweight trigger parts, which according to this document the Army apparently managed to break at least a couple). Yeah, interesting stuff indeed.

January 30, 2018, 01:20 PM

Il Cattivo

quote:
Originally posted by cslinger:
What I found weird was why so different between ammo types. Wonder if the 124 grain NATO ball has more snap causing the lever being pushed on recoil vs the special purpose ammo maybe being milder???

I have to admit I read it the other way, but there doesn't seem to be enough particular information to tell us. They were using 115 grain ball and, FWIW, I was wondering if it wasn't quite pushing the slide all the way back so that a little bit of lever wasn't enough to catch the slide.

January 30, 2018, 01:26 PM

rscalzo

quote:
So when did SIG really know that they had a problem with the gun?

That's bull. The military contract guns were all upgraded with what is the current parts.

Armorer courses reflected that over a year and a half ago.

January 30, 2018, 01:32 PM

jljones

quote:
Originally posted by rscalzo:
quote:
So when did SIG really know that they had a problem with the gun?

That's bull. The military contract guns were all upgraded with what is the current parts.

Armorer courses reflected that over a year and a half ago.

Yep

January 30, 2018, 01:45 PM

cslinger

I missed that 115 grain info and just assumed 124 grain NATO.

Either way it’s odd that one round would cause more inadvertent holds of the slide stop unless more experienced shooters were testing the new ammo and the “interns” were running the ball so to speak.

Either way if that is the main cause of “stoppages” I’d call it pretty darn good.

January 30, 2018, 02:32 PM

sigforever

Old information on the Sig P320 issued in a report that ended months before the first Sig M17s where shipped to the end user. Problems listed were addressed and corrected.
Nothing to see here. Move along. Move along.

January 30, 2018, 04:22 PM

soggy_spinout

quote:
Originally posted by rscalzo:
quote:
So when did SIG really know that they had a problem with the gun?

That's bull. The military contract guns were all upgraded with what is the current parts.

Armorer courses reflected that over a year and a half ago.

I'm only responding to what was in that report, which cites FY17, which I presume meant Fiscal Year 2017. Does that actually mean that the drop testing took place in 2016?

January 30, 2018, 04:36 PM

stoic-one

quote:
Originally posted by soggy_spinout:
quote:
Originally posted by rscalzo:
quote:
So when did SIG really know that they had a problem with the gun?

That's bull. The military contract guns were all upgraded with what is the current parts.

Armorer courses reflected that over a year and a half ago.

I'm only responding to what was in that report, which cites FY17, which I presume meant Fiscal Year 2017. Does that actually mean that the drop testing took place in 2016?

Depends, the federal calendar for FY17 runs from Oct 1 2016 - Sep 30 2017 I believe.

January 30, 2018, 05:21 PM

Graniteguy

If they are going to post this - they should post the reports for all the finalists. At the very least - it would eliminate the potential appearance of any ulterior motives.

January 30, 2018, 08:27 PM

Prefontaine

https://taskandpurpose.com/arm...gun-system-problems/

January 30, 2018, 08:29 PM

HCM

quote:
Originally posted by soggy_spinout:
quote:
Originally posted by rscalzo:
quote:
So when did SIG really know that they had a problem with the gun?

That's bull. The military contract guns were all upgraded with what is the current parts.

Armorer courses reflected that over a year and a half ago.

I'm only responding to what was in that report, which cites FY17, which I presume meant Fiscal Year 2017. Does that actually mean that the drop testing took place in 2016?

FY 2017 for the Federal Government was October 1, 2016 through September 30, 2017.

January 31, 2018, 08:01 AM

Zacsquatch

As posted on Arfcom by a guy from SFAB, who sees these things used every day.

quote:
So over the last 30 days I’ve gotten to see several hundred M17s and 25 M18s shoot thousands of rounds. The only malfunction we had with ammo was a fail to fire which appeared to be a light primer strike and the round did fire on the second attempt. We also lost three front sight posts which I thought was odd. And finally, if you have man hands the safety won’t work for you.

Having said that the trigger is a million times better than the 92, magazines are much better quality and the taper has me hoping for better performance when exposed to sand (like actually functioning unlike the 92 magazine), the orange/green night sights are pretty cool but I haven’t done any low light shooting yet.

January 31, 2018, 09:13 PM

3/4Flap

quote:
Originally posted by jljones:
quote:
Originally posted by rscalzo:
quote:
So when did SIG really know that they had a problem with the gun?

That's bull. The military contract guns were all upgraded with what is the current parts.

Armorer courses reflected that over a year and a half ago.

Yep

OK.

Give us the real deal.

What do you think about...............

1} The Mil Guns as mil issue guns. Will they hold up? Are they as good as.....? What problems will crop up? Was the decision to adopt a good one?

2} The Civvy guns {as most were not configured with all mil features when they were made/before up}.

Don't hold back.

**********************
53 Jesus said to them, “Very truly I tell you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you have no life in you.

Read Quod Apostolici Muneris (1878) LEO XIII. This Pope warned us about the Socialists before most folks knew what a Socialist was...

January 31, 2018, 09:30 PM

piedrarc

Sorry, but after watching the soldiers attempting to display the basics of pistol handling and fall extremely short of knowing how to even properly hold one......

I won't put any effort into reading any report the Army has to offer.