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| Member |
Rburg...Thanks for your comments and thoughts. I did come here to ask, and I appreciate everyone providing their opinions and advice. Having said that, I never asked for anyone to do an iron clad investigation of the events, only to give me those opinions. It's very helpful to a relative newbie. A few things to clarify that you assumed, probably based on a lack of explicit info provided by me. I waited and cleared the firearm, and confirmed there was nothing in the bore. I didn't want to handle the round out of concern I might either set it off or it might go off. Looking back, I now know that's not something I need to be concerned about, but that's why I didn't take the round with me. As for "cheap ammo"...I get the difference between lower quality and higher quality ammo. In normal times, when stores are stocked and prices are rational, consumers can make a more quality based choice. When you wait in line for 2 hours, and the only thing available to you is WWB...take it or leave it...you take what you can get. I've shot a couple of thousand WWB rounds just in the last year and honestly haven't run in to any previous problems. Maybe I was due. Could be. I have some Sig 9mm NATO and other higher quality ammo, and that's what I'll use next time with the pistol The pistol is new, so not having years of firearms experience, I didn't know whether to look to the firearm or the ammo. That round may have been a dud with any pistol I was using, but the coincidence with a new pistol meant I wasn't sure, so I came here to ask. Seems like ammo is the likely cause. Thanks again for your help and advice. | |||
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Member |
Don't fret it neil0311, you have to be prepared for folks critiquing you on any forum. the final 'puff' problem was obviously ammo and so I would assume the previous fails to eject could also be the same.... it happens. I also think it is easy on a semi-auto after firing a number of rounds to get a little slack and limp wrist a shot. Nothing wrong with shooting cheap ammo... in fact a tad more fun.... you just have to be prepared for a problem now and then. I do prefer to stay away from Commie ammo for multiple reasons... My Native American Name: "Runs with Scissors" | |||
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| Member |
No fretting here. Always open to critiques. | |||
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| Non-Miscreant |
I like that term. I plan on stealing it and using it in the future. Same for commie guns. Unhappy ammo seeker | |||
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| Member |
On top of not supporting some communist regime .... on the rare occasion I've shot some... I just don't like the smell of the stuff... group of us were doing a lot of shooting with some of my rifles and they ran a bunch of wolf through my mini thirty.... we shot pretty much Georgia Arms stuff in the .223's and even after hundred of rounds the barrels were clean... the mini 30 where they ran about 50 rounds through with wolf looked like someone had poured mud down the barrel. Now I do have to confess that in the bottom of my ammo locker is a couple thousand rounds of corrosive chinese ammo for WTSHTF. My Native American Name: "Runs with Scissors" | |||
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| Member |
I don’t like the smell of Eezox either but I still use it. Frog Lube smells good and apparently you can eat it but does that mean I should use it? It is commie ammo. Who cares? I own an AK should I get rid of it because I’m supporting Putin? Silly shit. Commie ammo is dirt cheap, functions well, never broke anything on any of my guns, and did I mention it’s dirt cheap? Lol Most people who hate commie ammo (not you pbslinger) hate it because they read that they should. Or they have some bias because they were told it won’t work or work well or will break their gun. People (most) who shoot a lot and have shot commie ammo a lot will very readily tell you from experience that it is as “good” as any range level American ammo. At a significant price point improvement. | |||
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| Member |
Took the M18 back to the range, along with my Beretta M9. Ran 50 rounds of Sig 124gr 9mm NATO and the M18 ran without a hitch. Good solid center primer strikes and no issues at all. Also ran the remainder of the 100 count WWB that I used last week through the M9, and likewise no issues at all. So who knows…could have just been a one-off. | |||
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| Gracie Allen is my personal savior! |
^^^ As you've probably figured out, my bet is that it will be an occasionally recurring problem a bit more often with Winchester White Box than other forms of ammo. But, yep, the only thing you can really do at this point IMHO is just keep shooting the pistol and see what happens.
Totally understandable on both counts. You can tell an old-time AK degenerate because he'll actually start grinning when he smells fresh cat pee. You know they're completely gone when they start smearing cosmoline all over themselves and talking about how Putin's a manly genius who's just trying to protect the white race and traditional values. No kiddin', there's something warped going on in there.
ComBloc ammo tends to do surprisingly well (relatively speaking) in ComBloc rifles. Not sure what the difference is. (FWIW, the chic stuff these days is Barnaul.) OTOH, range pistol ammo seems to be range pistol ammo to me unless I sorta step up a bit by going to American Eagle or Sellier & Bellot. That said, WWB really has been something of a pain in the ass over time - which is why I don't even bother with Remington ball if given my druthers. | |||
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| Member |
The mystery is solved. Apparently the ammo I had was recalled for just this issue and I had no idea at all. I had more from the same batch unused. Posting this for others who also may not know about the recall. https://winchester.com/en/Supp...-Luger-115-gr-Recall | |||
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| Member |
Glad you updated and know for sure. But I’m curious why you might’ve thought it was the pistol. Primer strikes are a yes or no thing. Yes, it hit hard enough to set it off or no it didn’t. I don’t see how a pistol could cause a fizzle. If you pull the trigger and nothing happens, then yeah, check to see if there was a solid primer strike to determine if it’s a bad round or the firing pin/striker not hitting with enough force. But once something happens, it’s pretty clear it’s the round to me. Maybe I’m wrong and someone will educate me though! ------------------------------------------------ Charter member of the vast, right-wing conspiracy | |||
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| Freethinker |
Although I cannot think of a way the strike could cause a “fizzle” either, I disagree that primer strikes are necessarily yes/no. I base that on the one bit of information I learned years ago when revolvers were in much more common use. Then a popular way of reducing the trigger pull weight of Smith and Wesson revolvers was to back out or shorten the mainspring strain screw. That reduced pressure on the mainspring and reduced the pull weight. It was well known that reducing the power of the mainspring reduced the impact force on the primer and could result in misfires, but it was also (reportedly) found that the accuracy (precision, if one prefers) of shots fired from revolvers whose mainspring force was reduced suffered along with reliable primer ignition. The reason for that phenomenon wasn’t explained by the report, but I suspect it was due to how consistently the powder was ignited. If that report was true, then it indicates that primer striking force is not simply go/no-go in its effect on a discharge. Again, I can’t think of how firing pin force would cause the effect described by the OP, but the question may be more complex than yes/no. Added: My interest piqued, I did a little quick research of the question of whether firing pin striking force might affect shot precision. I couldn’t find any definitive answers, but some opinions supported the yes/no answer: if the primer ignites, then the force used to do it doesn’t matter. That opinion seems to be just that, though, opinion without any scientific or technical support, although an informal experiment or two seemed to support the theory. An opinion I did find that might be valid is that perhaps the longer lock time* of using lighter springs could affect the shooter’s ability to achieve good, consistent results. Short lock time has long been thought to be an advantage, so longer times due to reducing mainspring power could have a practical effect on the shooter’s performance. * Lock time is the time between when the sear releases the hammer or firing pin and when the primer is struck. That’s very short in all guns, but not instantaneous (with mechanical ignition) and not the same in all guns. ► 6.4/93.6 ___________ “We are Americans …. Together we have resisted the trap of appeasement, cynicism, and isolation that gives temptation to tyrants.” — George H. W. Bush | |||
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| Member |
I didn’t know, hence why I came to ask. As you can see from my OP, ammo was certainly my top concern, but it was a new pistol. This message has been edited. Last edited by: neil0311, | |||
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| Freethinker |
Questions generate discussions, and sometimes those discussions generate new questions which generate new discussions.  ► 6.4/93.6 ___________ “We are Americans …. Together we have resisted the trap of appeasement, cynicism, and isolation that gives temptation to tyrants.” — George H. W. Bush | |||
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Down the Rabbit Hole |
I had over 200 empty 100 Rd. boxes folded neatly in the toolbox of my truck several years back when I could get the stuff so cheap, it wasn't worth it to reload. I never had an issue running it in a couple of Glock 34s, Glock 26s, G19s and G17s. We've bought the stuff off and on for years and I can't remember ever having an issue in any of my pistols. It's not the hottest ammunition in the world however. Looks like it's not the same ammunition as it was back then. I recently commented to my Son that my 320 Compact has a noticeably lighter strike than his identical pistol. I've never had an issue and didn't bother to investigate. Just an observation. Diligentia, Vis, Celeritas "People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf." -- George Orwell | |||
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| Member |
I didn’t know, hence why I came to ask. As you can see from my OP, ammo was certainly my top concern, but it was a new pistol.
Based on your most recent experience it would be helpful to pull the projectile out of the case which didn't fire, empty the powder, and check to see if there is a flash hole in the case. Perhaps the primer ignited and created the small puff of smoke? I reload, and had some new cases a few years ago. A few of them did not have flash holes, and I had a similar experience. Just a small "pop", but slide didn't cycle and round didn't fire. Just a thought. Regards, Doug | |||
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| Member |
Sigfreund, I gotta say it’s always a pleasure to read your contributions. Always well thought out, critical thinking. Not to derail OP, but as you said, discussion spurs additional discussion. So I wonder how much the impact of a hammer strike could influence accuracy, or precision. You talked about lock time playing a part, with a longer lock time opening the door to influences (however minor) that can be detrimental to accuracy/precision. Take a cordite round, or flintlock or whatever, as an example. From trigger pull to bullet exiting barrel can be upwards of a second. A lot of potential for unintentional changes to POA. Obviously a difference in mainspring strength would be considerably less, but my thought was that I might actually expect the opposite of what you found. Perhaps a heavy hammer impact could ever so slightly jar the pistol, resulting in a POA shift from the time of trigger pull. Not so likely in a heavier, more stable platform like a rifle, but perhaps a bit with a handgun. I’m not coming up with a great hypothesis why a lighter mainspring would make for a decrease in precision. Assuming my reading comprehension is up to par tonight as I sip on some Manhattans. I don’t really have a specific point, really just thinking aloud. ------------------------------------------------ Charter member of the vast, right-wing conspiracy | |||
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Member |
A friend just asked me if I'm hearing about striker fired pistols having light primer strikes. He's wondering if some manufacturers of recent produced ammo may be using small rifle primers in place of small pistol primers. rambo | |||
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Member |
Winchester's 9mm recall notice indicates that the issue is some bad or contaminated propellant. | |||
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| Freethinker |
That’s a valid question, and it would be interesting to know if it’s ever been raised among handgun bull’s-eye shooters who would probably be the first to notice such an effect. And yes, the point about the recalled Winchester (and other) ammunition bears repeating because although it’s been mentioned several times here, evidently not everyone has picked up on it. ► 6.4/93.6 ___________ “We are Americans …. Together we have resisted the trap of appeasement, cynicism, and isolation that gives temptation to tyrants.” — George H. W. Bush | |||
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