Been on an AR kick lately and have neglected my pistols but I got out today in the back acreage with both.
I bought the Hellcat with the purpose of replacing the Kahr K9 Elite. The Kahr is a spectacular pistol but it's only a single stack. I wanted a bit more capacity so I got the Hellcat. I bought the CZ before the Hellcat and even though it's touted as an "S" (subcompact), it's longer and thicker than the Springfield.
Both got the 7 yard and 20 yard shoot offs and I actually shot the CZ better which was surprising. Earlier this year I was lights out with the Springfield.
I have a leather Glock 19 holster and it fits perfectly but I want kydex so I ordered a PJ holster. Hoodie weather so the CZ will get the call until the snow starts flying.
I'm comparison, both have excellent sights with a tritium dot up front. The CZ has the standard square rear where the Springfield has the rear U notch. Both are steel.
Trigger goes to the CZ by quite a bit. The Springfield is decent but the CZ shines here. Both are optic compatible but I'll stick to irons for defensive use. YMMV.
I was half tempted to sell the CZ as it's definitely not a subcompact but it just earned a spot in the rotation. Fits nicely in between the Hellcat for Summer and the 19X for Winter.

I think the new term for the new tiny double-stack 9mms is "micro-compact). Someone correct me if I'm wrong.

quote:

Originally posted by Jester814:
I think the new term for the new tiny double-stack 9mms is "micro-compact). Someone correct me if I'm wrong.

I'm pretty sure you're correct and the Hellcat is for sure.
My thing is the CZ being in the subcompact arena because it feels more like a Glock 19 than anything else.

I’ve owned both a P365 and P365XL. No longer have either. The Micro Compact’s are amazing for concealment but I value a good grip over smallest possible size, at least currently. For the moment the subcompact size is best all around compromise of features for me for a carry pistol. I even like shooting them at the range.

quote:

Originally posted by ah3:
I’ve owned both a P365 and P365XL. No longer have either. The Micro Compact’s are amazing for concealment but I value a good grip over smallest possible size, at least currently. For the moment the subcompact size is best all around compromise of features for me for a carry pistol. I even like shooting them at the range.

That's my main thing for getting the Hellcat, very easy to conceal. I carried it all Summer and I can get away with just a tee shirt covering it. I can't do that with the CZ, it's just big enough that I have to wear a hoodie to conceal. Some people can pull it off though, I'm just not one of them.
I can still get a good grip on the Springfield as my hands aren't that big. The CZ does feel better compared.

I agree to a point about the grip. That is why I bought the Grayguns laser etched grip modules for the 365. Big improvement. Then I found the Wilson Combat grip modules. They are basically perfect. So much so that I prefer a 365 with the WC module and a Macro mag to the actual Macro. Now if WC makes a Macro grip module I will adjust that way of thinking perhaps. Try a WC grip module, I am slowing swapping all mine over to that, it is a great upgrade.

I tried various subcompacts with a Springfield XDS, various Kahrs and now a P365. In my opinion, the P365 is a great firearm, for me it's accurate, and eats anything I put through it. But it is regulated to 2nd place to my P229. In this case, same capacity (I carry a 40SW), better grip and essentially bullet proof. The P365 sits IWB when I'm too lazy to put on a belt and proper holster.

Is the Hellcat offered with a manual safety?

Not trying to be argumentative but are you guys kidding? Same capacity? In a much smaller gun and even then you are wrong. You can put a 17 round mag plus 1 in your 365 and its still way smaller than a 229. I get that you carry 40 and there is no 40 365 but that makes the comparison even more one sided.

We all like what we like but at least lets stay factually grounded. The 365 and Hellcat demolish the capacity vs size game.

I don't currently own a 228 or 229 so I went over to handgun hero. Come on, the 229 is huge compared to the 365. Add the big mag it is still smaller and nearly doubles the round count (18)

Yes.

https://www.springfield-armory...ndgun-manual-safety/

quote:

Originally posted by Edmond:
Is the Hellcat offered with a manual safety?

I think the defining difference between subcompact and microcompact is width. The microcompacts are right around 1" wide. The subcompacts tend to be 1.3" wide or wider. If Glock took the 26, and shaved it down to 1" wide, but left everything else the same, it would be a microcompact.

quote:

Originally posted by joatmonv:

quote:

Originally posted by Jester814:
I think the new term for the new tiny double-stack 9mms is "micro-compact). Someone correct me if I'm wrong.

I'm pretty sure you're correct and the Hellcat is for sure.
My thing is the CZ being in the subcompact arena because it feels more like a Glock 19 than anything else.

A few reference pictures.
The CZ I would almost put into compact territory personally. It's not a 19X of course and that has the 17 grip so there's no question which has a better area for your grip.
The Hellcat is tiny compared to either.
Since I have them out and I'm going to start carrying the CZ, I'm going to take the Glock out and put them up against each other. The Hellcat is going back in the safe until late Spring next year.
I did carry a 229 years ago that was a LEO pistol turn in. That was a chunky little bitch but it shot great. I just remember how much that pistol weighed.

I nearly jumped on the P10S but then I compared it with the P-07. Not a lot of difference, size wise so I went with the DA/SA P-07. To me, the P10S is a compact.

I’m fortunate to own a multitude of the new micro pistols. They all have their strengths and virtues. I can perform better with any one of them on a given day. The change in variables is usually me. The challenge with them is their smaller grip size & my ability to grasp them to present under speed. Shot timers don’t lie. WC or GG grip frames for the P365 make a difference. Talon Grips & Hogue handballs work wonders for all the others. I try not to get caught up in the capacity debate. Carrying a Kahr PM9 & spare mag for awhile & being generally aware and considering my areas in transit always a wise thing right? Whether it’s the trigger or sights on your carry, you have to be comfortable, thorough and practiced with what you’re carrying? We all find our preferences.

He is right. Sig came out with the 320 lineup and the grip modules were lacking to begin with in my opinion. They all were in need of a stipple job at a minimum. Then they came out with the X series grips which were an improvement. The 365 grips were the same way for me. I went the stippled/laser route and then Wilson Combat. a 365 of any size variety with the WC grip module is a vast improvement. So much so that I truly think they should come from the factory that way. Don't know how that could happen but they are that much better.

I have all the 365 sizes and like them all. However I grudgingly have to admit the X size guns with the WC grip is the sweet spot. I was comparing the Macro and the X with WC side by side and it was no contest. The X with WC was the better handling gun. Add the Macro mag with appropriate baseplate and I'm not even sure why the Macro exists. (that hurt to type because I bought a Macro and loved it, right up until they sold the big mags with the assorted baseplates).

My 2 cents, buy any 365X of your preference. Comp, no comp, optics ready or no, then add the WC X grip, get Magguts to take the 12 rounders to 14, buy a spare Macro mag for a 17 round reload, get holster of choice. You will have the best all around ccw pistol of choice (for most people).

If you can carry/conceal a P10S, give the Hellcat Pro a look. Natively 15 round with factory flush fit mags, is thinner than the P10S, and while the P10S is marginally shorter in the grip, it's grip sticks out further back, so the grip print issue seems largely a wash.

What timer results are you getting?

quote:

Originally posted by CQB60:
I’m fortunate to own a multitude of the new micro pistols. They all have their strengths and virtues. I can perform better with any one of them on a given day. The change in variables is usually me. The challenge with them is their smaller grip size & my ability to grasp them to present under speed. Shot timers don’t lie. WC or GG grip frames for the P365 make a difference. Talon Grips & Hogue handballs work wonders for all the others. I try not to get caught up in the capacity debate. Carrying a Kahr PM9 & spare mag for awhile & being generally aware and considering my areas in transit always a wise thing right? Whether it’s the trigger or sights on your carry, you have to be comfortable, thorough and practiced with what you’re carrying? We all find our preferences.

quote:

The CZ I would almost put into compact territory personally.

Yeah, it's kind of a 'tweener' gun. Like the original "1.0" 12rd M&P 9c was. Larger than a G26, but smaller than a G19.

quote:

Originally posted by BBMW:
If you can carry/conceal a P10S, give the Hellcat Pro a look. Natively 15 round with factory flush fit mags, is thinner than the P10S, and while the P10S is marginally shorter in the grip, it's grip sticks out further back, so the grip print issue seems largely a wash.

I did fondle one a bit ago and almost purchased but I do like the CZ.
My main 3 carry pistols are a Springfield Hellcat (Summer), CZ P10S (Spring and Fall) and a Glock 19X (Winter). I like the Pro but it really doesn't have a niche for me with what I have now.