Or, was it one piece in the first place? I'm taking about the shell only, primer excluded. Thanks.

Of all the modern day metallics which are drawn, they are 1 piece. There are some interesting videos online showing the process. There is a Starline brass video of how they're made. I dont know that Starline is as large as some ammo makers but their brass is high quality.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: David Lee,

I've never seen much on the big bottle necks, which would be interesting but, I have facinated over obsolete straight walls like the early Stevens rifle rounds. If you've ever seen a round of .22-15-60 you would ask yourself how they stretched them out so far. That's a smaller example of a very skinny straight wall case. A beautiful round when loaded. When the obsoletes cannot be found in drawn casings, some small outfits can make them by lathe turning. Those dont afford you as many reloads however. BTW Q, primers are equally interesting to see how they are made. And .22 rimfire also... There are multiple piece casings but I think limited to obsolete cartridges and experimental rounds. You can still get newly manufactured foil case rounds in old school British cartridges. They are ugly but beautiful in their own right. 'Magine that, foil cases.

Thanks, David. Interesting. Here is why I asked.

Yesterday, I was continuing the process of endurance testing the Ni P228. Loaded up 1000 rounds ready to go (500 S&B 124 FMJ and 500 Freedom Munitions 115 RN). Shot all the 500 S&B rds with zero problems. Then, shot the Freedom ammo. Rd #301 would get stuck midway as it entered chamber. It wasn't a simple normal hang-up that you can just push through. It was immovable. So, WTF? Took off the slide and looked, and it was case head separation.
The range guy was able to take it out no problems. There was no damage to the barrel. Stupid me I didn't bother to inspect the rest of the ammo and just kept shooting. So, what happened? Another case separation at rd #471. I was able to tap it out myself and called it a day. No way I was going to shoot the remaining 29 rounds.

Back home, I got to inspect the rounds closely and all of them have the "ring". This can only mean one of two things. Either Freedom made these brass by piecing 2 parts together, or they lied when they said these were "new" ammo (yes, these are their new ammo, not the Reman ones). Because when you claimed new ammo, they are supposed to be made from newly manufactured brass, not from from brass that have been fired so much that the brass are about to fracture/separate as indicated by the ring. Either way, this really pissed me off. Freedom filed for Chapter 11 last year. They are still in business, however, and this makes me wish they were OOB permanently.

Funny thing is, while loading up the mags, I had that gut feeling that the Freedom ammo were going to give me problems at the range. Should have listened to my gut.

Give me your thoughts.

Case manufacture: There are some gimmick two piece cases out there, but conventional brass is one piece, drawn or extruded.

I can't read the headstamps on that "new" ammo, are they all the same?

I load Xtreme bullets because they are cheap and adequate, but avoid Freedom ammo (same company.)

I suggest you plink up the rest of the Freedom in undemanding situations and learn how to clear a separated case if it happens again.

I assume there is some reason you do not load your own. A Square Deal would cost about as much as a couple dozen of your 66 magazines.

A lot of the YT guys that review guns tout FM ammo; don't tell me that they're all just full of it!?!

A couple of guys that I sometimes go shooting with have tried FM "new" ammo purchased in bulk online. Both have reported that they weren't impressed with the quality of the stuff. I don't believe any of them experienced the case separation issues that you had but they both said that failures to ignite (not sure if it was light primer strikes or something else, since neither said anything about the depth of the dimpling involved) and that on multiple cases there were dents, scuffs and various signs of shoddy workmanship and handling during production. One went as far as commenting that he'd rather shoot Walmart WWB than FM.

I noticed from your pics that they don't crimp their bullets in, though there's some marks on several cases that almost look like with a few cartridges that they might have feebly tried. A cautionary tale about buying ammo made by a company in bankruptcy protection, perhaps?

Weird. I'm not sure about they're being new cases; the rings down at the bottom of the brass in the bottom picture are all too clearly the result of a sizing die. The rings where the cases separated look like they simply turned back the sizing die in an attempt to crimp the body of the case rather than the neck in order to prevent setback without thinning the case around the mouth (rather than maintain OAL for smooth feeding). Combine that with bullets seated slightly off-kilter and it might be possible to weaken that specific section of the case.

Those are drawn cases for sure; could they have used a series of drawing dies where the last die did something weird that left the forward portion of the case too thin?

I would never endanger myself or one of my firearms by shooting FM ammo. It’s crap ammo that is cheap for a reason.......

Q, if possible, can you pull a bullet from an unfired cartridge and look and see if the unfired case has a "step" or ledge on the case wall. There are some manufactures that use this case design to prevent bullet setback...we have a couple of shooters at our range that have had similar case separations with IMI 9MM ammo...Freedom Munitions may have purchased this style of brass new for their loads.

On the go with your gut, one theory on intuition or gut feeling is that you have received more information than your "logical" brain can process. If you think about how many rounds of ammo you have handled in your life, there may have been something about those Freedom rounds that at least part of your brain was suspicious about, but didn't rise to the level that you could express it logically.

I have seen videos about Freedom Munitions using stepped cases for their 9mm ammo. A short search led me to this article that may be of interest to you.

https://handgunplanet.com/revi...s-124-grain-9mm-fmj/

quote:

Originally posted by Black Pepper:
I have seen videos about Freedom Munitions using stepped cases for their 9mm ammo. A short search led me to this article that may be of interest to you.

https://handgunplanet.com/revi...s-124-grain-9mm-fmj/

Yep...I ran across this thread on the Mississippi Gun Owners website...he mentioned FM as the headstamp...

https://www.msgo.com/threads/b...nitions-brass.77906/

quote:

Originally posted by Black Pepper:
I have seen videos about Freedom Munitions using stepped cases for their 9mm ammo. A short search led me to this article that may be of interest to you.

https://handgunplanet.com/revi...s-124-grain-9mm-fmj/

Wow! Thank you very much. That original article / review article was May 2014, when FM was still using step case brass. An update evaluation in May 2016 said they phased out the step case ammo.

My stash of 500 rds FM ammo was purchased a few years back, when FM was still using step case brass. So, it all makes sense now. When I get home from work later, I'll pull out the bullet from the case to confirm.

Glad I could help. If the ammo that you have is the stepped case design, perhaps contacting Freedom Munitions and letting them know what has happened hopefully will get you some replacement ammo instead of being stuck with what you have now.

There are new two piece cases that are clearly visible as two pieces from the outside.




Stepped cases... I could see how sizing the uneven thickness metals might stress them and cause separation upon firing.





I recall seeing some cases that had a much bigger "step" and were much smaller down below.

(photos shamelessly stol... borrowed from the web)

In CASs' pic above you can also see the IMT head stamp. It is suggested on line these may be cases from Starline. Qs' photos clearly show the variables from poor quality ammunition making. Sinse its only 500 rounds, I would set those aside from your better ammo and not shoot them. I wonder how automated the companies loading machines are. There are small companies running benches full of Dillion loaders making ammo. It is not rocket science. One needs to be dedicated to producing quality end product. If their equipments are pneumatics, those like a mechanical loader need to be tended to produce quality. Those photos of this ammo clearly show a number of issues in their loading process. A man with a plastic and aluminum Lee could do better. Heck, I've used old Winchester and Ideal hand loading tools, more intended for loading rounds afield for hunting and have made better looking black powder rounds than the 9s pictured above.

Ok, no more doubt. It's confirmed stepped case. And all IMT head stamps. Of the Freedom "new" ammo, those are the only rounds I have left, so it's not worth doing anything about them with the factory. Just know that I will not buy from them again, although it was pointed out in the article above that they have phased out these stepped case brass in 2016.
A good learning experience about brass case manufacturing.

Interesting you are having this issue on their new mfg ammo. While the stepped cases are ones I put in the recycle bin when sorting for reloading, I haven't heard it being an issue on their new ammo. Most reloads do the same. Especially if they are loading for 9 major. I'm not but it's not worth the risk to me.

To answer your manufacturing question, I thought I read somewhere that stepped cases are produced the same way as normal cases, but the last step in the process is omitted. I'm guessing the last step somehow takes care of the step in the case.

Actually, I was wrong. It is a different process. This is from Brian Enos' forum:

"9mm brass made by forced extrusion rather than typical pressure drawing causes there to be that visible "ledge" about halfway down the case wall. It's just cheaper to make them using a forced extrusion method. ....It's not for bullet setback. The step is just an artifact from the manufacturing process."​

Of course, everything on the internet is true.... But this explanation makes sense.

Link to original video: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=74ssMmD_tXE