I have a M&P9 2.0 Compact and just got an Apex Flat-Faced Forward Set Trigger Kit for it. The Spreadsheet of trigger weights that came with the Apex kit shows options (spring, components variations) that allow for 9 different trigger pull weights. For those of you that have this kit for CCW/SD ... which pull weight are you using? Any other observations?

In general, I think 4.5 pounds is pretty optimal for carry. 3-3.5 for competition.

I personally don't really care. You'll have people that will vomit back internet lore of how carrying this weight or that weight will cause a good shoot to be a bad shoot because either an internet personality has told them so, or they have seen it on TV (same place that gets DNA back within a half an hour, where in reality it is 14-16 months). When the reality is that there has never been a good shoot in a free state that all of sudden turned to a bad shoot because of trigger pull weight. Not one single case. Ever. And when this is pointed out that there has never been a single case, you get the feel good "well, you do what you want, but my experience is that blah, blah, blah". When they do try to present cases to "prove" their point, a little reading past the "Iraqi WAR VETERN" or "VETERAN COP" will find it wasn't a good shoot to begin with, or it occurred in a location that merely lawfully possessing a gun puts you in the wrong.

Frank Proctor probably knows as much about defensive shooting as anyone. He chooses 3 pounds on all of his M&Ps. My personal requirement is not weight, it is feel. I have to be able to prep into it a bit. That usually winds me up in the upper 3's to low 4's. No set specific weight, or parameter, just the ability to have a good hard, solid prep.

I'd say find you a pull weight that works with you and rock on.

Following a suggestion from Apex pres., I have been replacing just the sear in M&P9 M2.0 pistols with Apex two-dot sears. Result is a significant reduction in required trigger force.
The use of Apex Competition kit into a M1.0 M&P9L brought force down to about 3.7 pounds-force. Unfortunately, Apex has yet to sell a competition kit for the M2.0
Very interesting that Apex shows 9 variations even without providing a competition kit for M2.0

Please tell what the nine estimates are. It is possible that Apex just does not wish to use the word "Competiton," (with M2.0) but can provide the same effect with selected parts.

quote:

Originally posted by P320Mac:
Please tell what the nine estimates are. It is possible that Apex just does not wish to use the word "Competiton," (with M2.0) but can provide the same effect with selected parts.

Mac ... they are listed here. The link is in red, just above the videos.

quote:

Originally posted by jljones:
I personally don't really care. ... (good info cut to save space)

Thanks for the input Sir.

Many thanks. The .pdf document referenced indicates (assuming that the factory trigger force is 6.0 pounds-force) that one can achieve 4.38 pounds-force to 6.37 pounds-force.

The lightest is with replacing the sear with Apex two-dot sear - just what I have been doing.

I have not found any benefit to replacing the striker block and it can be difficult to perform since it requires removing the rear sight.

I have not found any benefit to replacing the trigger (part touched by finger), but some people do rant about the factory trigger.

I speculate that for most competitors replacing the sear (Brownells had a reasonable price) is sufficient.

As has often been the case here, Mr. Jones has words of wisdom about trigger force. Bullseye rules allow down to 2 pounds-force. Best trigger that I ever have used is on my 1000 yard rifle - when my left eye says wind is right and my right eye says on target, the rifle goes off.

I've taken several of Jerry's classes, taught by him, and by others in his organization. The most common observation toward the end of the course is that it really doesn't matter that a pistol has a light trigger or even a smooth one. It's all about prepping the trigger and rolling through the trigger after prepped. The type of trigger, even type of pistol or make or trigger system, not nearly so important as trigger control and fundamentals (grip, sight alignment, etc).

The notion of seeking the lightest trigger or the smoothest is misplaced. In fact, the absence of a recognizable point to prep the trigger just shy of the break is a hindrance to a good, rapid, accurate shot. Seeking to go as light as possible is chasing the wrong rabbit hole, as is seeking the smoothest pull. One would be better investing in more range time and spending more effort on dry fire to get to know the existing trigger better.

Having installed several Apex trigger kits my observations are that I appreciate the smoothness but I DEMAND 100 % reliability. I don't care how light or smooth the trigger is, if a spring combo isn't 100% reliable it's junk to me. Some combinations from Apex didn't reset every single time for me so I went with the springs that did.

Just my 2cents. Others have more professional experience than I do........

I put the Apex FF kit in my 2.0 5" M&P. Before upgrading, I had a sub-5lb pull from the factory. I went with combo that is suppose to yield a 4.68lb pull, but it turned out lighter than that. I just re-tested it and it's 3lb 14oz after about 1000 rounds on that trigger. I intend to go back in and put in the heavier non-painted Apex trigger return spring at some point. It's just a range gun for me though, so there's no hurry.

I really like what the full kit did for the trigger. I'm not one that hated the stock trigger shape, but figured I wanted to get the full effect, so went the whole nine yards. I own a sight pusher, so not a big deal on the striker block install for me.

I was looking to make the trigger as nice as my stock P320's have. And that's exactly what this kit did for me.

quote:

Originally posted by sns3guppy:
I've taken several of Jerry's classes, taught by him, and by others in his organization. The most common observation toward the end of the course is that it really doesn't matter that a pistol has a light trigger or even a smooth one. It's all about prepping the trigger and rolling through the trigger after prepped. The type of trigger, even type of pistol or make or trigger system, not nearly so important as trigger control and fundamentals (grip, sight alignment, etc).

The notion of seeking the lightest trigger or the smoothest is misplaced. In fact, the absence of a recognizable point to prep the trigger just shy of the break is a hindrance to a good, rapid, accurate shot. Seeking to go as light as possible is chasing the wrong rabbit hole, as is seeking the smoothest pull. One would be better investing in more range time and spending more effort on dry fire to get to know the existing trigger better.

I agree that I would not like a trigger with no detectable wall, or if it was hair triggerish (which I realize varies by user). But a smoother trigger can certainly add to accuracy. I'd bet there are just about zero higher level competitive shooters that don't have a worked trigger.

I agree that there has to be a definite "wall" for me to shoot well. In the past, I had a couple of Glocks that were set up for competition, but, there wasn't any "wall".
That said, most of my competition pistols have triggers in 20-24 oz. range, with the exception of my M&Ps. The 1.0s are about 35 ounces, the 2.0 is at 40 ounces. Apex told me their competition spring kit shouldn't be used in the 2.0, but, mine works just fine, but, I've been running the stock striker springs in all of them because with the Apex striker springs, i had to use federal primers to get 100% ignition.
To me, a CRISP 5# trigger is better than a mushy 2# trigger.