quote:

Originally posted by Kevbo:
Kenzie’s optics is where I’ve gotten mine...all through amazon actually. I have several from them now

Thank you. It seems I missed the initial release; everyone I found has them listed as back order now.

If money was no a factor the SRO would be on every red dot handgun I own. It is that good. I believe very unscientifically that it is probably as durable as an RMR but significantly easier to score hits. Period. It looks bigger in pictures than it does in person. Until holster manufacturers get up to speed that is an issue but it eventually not be a factor.

quote:

Originally posted by pedropcola:
If money was no a factor the SRO would be on every red dot handgun I own. It is that good. I believe very unscientifically that it is probably as durable as an RMR but significantly easier to score hits. Period. It looks bigger in pictures than it does in person. Until holster manufacturers get up to speed that is an issue but it eventually not be a factor.

I'd watch this before you buy...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UzjgOq60vFE

after lots and lots of rounds using an RMR I don't even notice the color and/or the window size. I like the top loading on the SRO and I'm willing to run one on a gaming gun, but I'll wait awhile before I consider it on the same level of reliability as an RMR. I have quite a few RMR's and I've done some pretty nasty things to them and pretty comfortable with their durability. I didn't have any issues on holsters changing from an RMR to an SRO.
On the DPP as part of my try of running an M17 instead of a glock competitively I used the DPP initially (while I was waiting for a slide to be milled). It lasted a week. Sample size of one. The buttons suck. Will get back on testing it when I have some time to actually get to matches.
I'd love to test the aimpoint but I have it on backorder since spring at several sites. Its not a good sign they can't deliver.

FWIW,I have 4 Aimpoimt acros

It’s not that they can’t deliver. It’s that the demand far out paces the supply

quote:

Originally posted by bcjwriter:

quote:

Originally posted by pedropcola:
If money was no a factor the SRO would be on every red dot handgun I own. It is that good. I believe very unscientifically that it is probably as durable as an RMR

I'd watch this before you buy...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UzjgOq60vFE

Great video. Thank you for sharing.

quote:

Originally posted by Kevbo:
It’s that the demand far out paces the supply

That’s obviously it.

I was a little surprised that the Acro was announced long before the first ones were available on the market, but as any rational person should know, it’s sheer folly to release a product like this before all the bugs are worked out, and sometimes problems are not discovered until just before they’re ready to be boxed up. I don’t know that that’s what happened with the Acro, but it’s possible.*

But once they are ready to be sold, it’s not always possible to know how many should be stockpiled for a first release, especially if there was already a delay in shipping them. And as for demand, I have had a Docter sight for years, but its open design that most similar sights use is not something I would rely on except for gaming or for any serious purpose other than on a house gun. The Acro is the first optical sight I’m aware of that I would give any consideration to employing on a handgun used in outdoor conditions when it might get rained or snowed on, or be carried for extended periods and used in a dusty, dirty environment. I doubt I am alone in recognizing that.

The sight’s design plus the Aimpoint reputation for quality are why I am willing to wait as long as necessary to buy one when I wouldn’t consider anything else. I also suspect that I’m not alone in that willingness, and that’s why the demand is currently exceeding supply.

* It’s also just possible that the first run(s) were snapped up by buyers who don’t have to wait in line to buy such things. A year or so ago a retired special operations senior NCO told me that units like his were starting to adopt optical “red dot” sights for their handguns. Assuming the sights meet their demanding standards, the Acro is exactly what I would want for such purposes rather than the ones with the traditional open design.

Yeah on a pistol I'll likely be waiting for the Acro P-1 reviews after a year or so of feedback.

I have an RMR piggybacked on a riflescope and was going to mill a G19 slide or get an MOS, but with the SRO / Acro coming out, it's back to waiting for the time being. Irons still work fine for now.

I know there was also discussion of "rolling changes" to the Acro due to the unsatisfactory (to some) feel of the adjustments. I could see revisions delaying production a little. It's like everything else in this industry, though. One day soon, they'll be in stock all over.

I’m not trying to turn this into an acro thread but I can share some of my end user observations having had 4 now since they became available to the public in April

I do absolutely agree with the two knocks that pretty much everyone has on the acro

1). The adjustments are not nearly as tactile as other red dots. Aimpoint is already changing this. It’s not a big deal to me but it’s absolutely true. There is no “click click” as you make adjustments. It makes and holds the adjustments fine. It just isn’t as tactile as most like

2). Battery life is not nearly what it is with other aimpoints. Probably not equal to the RMR depending on how you run it. The acro runs on a smaller battery. If you use the acro you should figure out what brightness you want to run it on and then plan a battery change schedule appropriate to that brightness. The batteries are dirt cheap...less than $1/per for energizers. Where it really outshines the rmr is the battery compartment is on the side of the optic. You can change it with a quarter. There is no need to re-zero because you don’t have to remove the optic to do (like you do with an RMR). For some people this is a deal breaker. For me, having a closed emitter RMR with the acquisition of the acro and reliability is worth changing a $1 battery every 2 months. YMMV

Not that it matters why, but I don't see how any of us could know what aimpoints supply problem is...demand, parts, running product changes, production yield etc. But it remains that top notch reliable companies are unable to get the required quantities from Aimpoint for long existing backorders. like mine...
I have no view of the sight itself as I have not tested one, but I can say that RMR's are very,very tough based on my personal use, and that battery life is quite long. The penalty for that is that you can't leave it on a setting and have it stay there forever, which they should fix. I have not had any issues removing an RMR to change the battery and putting it back with big changes in POA. To me the reliability of the ACRO remains to be seen. Aimpoint has an excellent reputation so I'm hopeful, but Aimpoint talks about 20K rounds of .40 as their baseline for claiming that, but frankly I would not consider that a very tough benchmark. I've RMR's way over that without issue.

Aimpoints US HQ is 6 miles from my front door. I know several people that work there. They, of course, could not be telling me everything, I wouldn’t expect them to, but that’s where the majority of my information comes from.

Thank you, Kevbo, for your information. I was not aware of either complaint. Neither would change my mind about choosing the Acro, but they are good to know.

As for shock testing, it would be interesting to know from an engineering standpoint how much is enough. I admit I wouldn’t be impressed very much by “We shot 100 rounds of +P,” but I’m reminded of some people’s claim (not seen too much these days) that it’s necessary to fire 1000 or more rounds of carry ammunition with a gun to ensure it’s reliable. The mechanics aren’t the same as testing an electronic device, but 20,000 rounds of 40 S&W—a cartridge that’s supposed to have such ferocious recoil that big, strong policemen can’t handle it and must switch to 9mm? Yeah, I believe that’s enough for a handgun sight.

Between my 4 Acros, I’ve probably got 5 thousand rounds? Some of those are on a rifle. I actually have a factory colt commando in ATF jail right now that will wear one of the Acros when my tax stamp comes back. In my very unscientific testing the Acros are typical aimpoints save the battery life

As I said a little earlier, my buddy who is in the CBP firearms division is privy to the testing they are doing for optics on their new G19/47 combos. For reliability the RMR, DPP, Acro and Holosun have all held up well and he said he would carry any of the 4 on duty

As for me, I originally switched from the rmr to the dpp because I really struggled picking up the dot. The DPP made a world of difference. The Acros kind of built on that too. Full disclosure. I am now a much better optics shooter in large part because of the DPP. I suspect if I went back and tried the rmr again I would be much better because I’ve become a better pistol optics shooter. I got a holosun 507 at a steal and have been testing that out and honestly for less than half what I paid for the Acros the next optic I buy will be another holosun

Combined effort to establish current ACRO battery life has led to the estimates of
- one week on max setting, or setting 10.
- three weeks on 9.
- six months on 7.
- somewhere in between that on 8.

Between my personal experience and experience of my friends, I don't love any optic for a carry gun right now. RMR really is the only choice given my preferences at this point. However, if Trijicon gets an SRO to be as intrinsically resistant (I don't expect it to be as strong to the external impact), I might make a switch. Leupold is also quietly making some rolling changes, hopefully that would work out.

What reticle brightness setting of the Acro would normally be appropriate for use in daylight?

You might want Kevbo to opine on that. I don't own one, my experience is limited to playing with / shooting one that belonged to my buddy. My understanding is that 7 is what you'd use indoors, and toggling between 8 and 9 gives you a decent outdoors illumination without having to change that battery weekly. This is just a hearsay, but it did go into my personal decision of not buying one until this is fixed.

The acro on my carry gun is on a 7. I don’t have any problem picking up the dot outside or inside on a 7. If it was super bright I might go up to an 8. I have a bad astigmatism, so when the dot is brighter it tends to starburst more if that makes sense. I can’t see any reason to ever be on a 9 or 10

I basically change the battery in my carry gun every 2 months. A spare battery easily fits in the grip plug area of the gun too (one advantage of a smaller battery)

I really think people just needed to adjust their expectations with the size battery. If the rmr ran on the acro battery you’d get less life too. As with lots of stuf, there is a trade off.

I’ve asked the aimpoint guys why they didn’t go with a 2032 and it basically didn’t work for the size they wanted for a pistol optic. If you want an aimpoint with a closed emitter and double glass like the acro that runs on a 2032 that’s basically what the T2 is

There are several good stress tests out and about with the acro, including one by sage dynamics.

I’ve been carrying one for basically 4 months now. It’s a great optic.

I presume that illumination settings are filed under "personal preferences ". An LEO from South Africa has posted that he needs his on max. A number of folks who spend a lot of time outdoors in AZ have stated 9 to be their choice, especially when aiming against the sun, especially at light colored targets such as steel plates. Some people prefer larger than 3.5 minute dots and make it look that way by bumping up the illumination.

Absolutely true. I admittedly don’t get to shoot outdoors a ton. Might have a totally different opinion if I did

quote:

Originally posted by YVK:
I presume that illumination settings are filed under "personal preferences ". An LEO from South Africa has posted that he needs his on max. A number of folks who spend a lot of time outdoors in AZ have stated 9 to be their choice, especially when aiming against the sun, especially at light colored targets such as steel plates. Some people prefer larger than 3.5 minute dots and make it look that way by bumping up the illumination.