SIGforum
P320 or S&W M&P 2.0

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February 18, 2019, 10:44 PM
sigspecops
P320 or S&W M&P 2.0
I sold a P320c for a 2.0. The Sig is an awesome pistol, no doubt. I just find the M&P easier to shoot and I like it's ergonomics a little more. Now if it's trigger just had that short take up that the Sig has, it would be the icing on the cake. I do hope to get another 320 someday though.


No one's life, liberty or property is safe while the legislature is in session.- Mark Twain
March 24, 2019, 12:05 PM
P320Mac
Replace the factory cast-looking sear with Apex two-dot sear and you will at least have cake. Easy to swap. Push out the rear-most frame pin (left-to-right). Gently lift the rear-most assembly up just enough to expose all of the end of the cross pin seen on the left side. With finger over the factory sear (spring is under the sear) slowly push the cross pin from left to right only just enough to feel that the factory sear is loose. Slowly remove factory sear and replace with two-dot sear. Some wiggling is required while pressing the cross-pin from the right until new sear is captured and end of pin is seen on left. Make sure that the new sear has under-spring working. Press rear assembly back in place and replace the frame pin from the right side. Enjoy. Mac


Mac in Michigan
March 24, 2019, 12:53 PM
BuddyChryst
quote:
Originally posted by SSAreGreat:
quote:
Originally posted by SSAreGreat:
M&P 2.0. is my pick. The 320 has too much muzzle rise for me and my M&P 1.0 is very resistant to limp wristing, weak ammo, and has low perceived recoil. IMHO.


Someone agrees with me in that I always thought the 320 has too much muzzle rise.


Wait. Did you totally just quote and agree with yourself???


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March 24, 2019, 02:17 PM
Dtech
The M&P M2.0 would have my vote for grip/ergonomics, trigger, profile, price, and pretty much every other characteristic.


-Dtech
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March 25, 2019, 09:15 AM
Cous2492
I just did a range session with the following guns:

M&P 2.0 Compact 9mm
Glock 19 G4
Sig P320 Comapact 9mm
Sig P228

All guns had 15 round 9mm magazines and were loaded with Blazer Brass 115gr FMJ.

Overall, I liked the G19. However, the M&P had the least felt recoil and muzzle flip, which shocked me. The BIG con to the M&P 2.0 is the obnoxiously rough grip texture. Wear an undershirt or be very, very sore.

The P228 felt the most solid, and did well in long range shooting. The P320 feels good in the hand but its higher than average bore axis and light weight dont do it any favors when trying to shoot fast.

Like I mentioned beofre, the G19 is a great pistol overall. I was planning on ditching the G19 for either the 2.0 or P320, but had to think twice after shooting them all together.
March 25, 2019, 09:56 AM
gruntjim
Had both, and I much prefer my 320 Compact with the small grip module.

Maybe it's all those years with the Classic SIGs, but the 320 feels more instinctive to me.

And the upgraded trigger is superb. As an aside, the 320 seems not to show an ammo preference. It likes everything.


(\__/)
(='.'=)
(")_(")
March 25, 2019, 07:39 PM
jljones
quote:
Originally posted by Cous2492:
I just did a range session with the following guns:

M&P 2.0 Compact 9mm
Glock 19 G4
Sig P320 Comapact 9mm
Sig P228

All guns had 15 round 9mm magazines and were loaded with Blazer Brass 115gr FMJ.

Overall, I liked the G19. However, the M&P had the least felt recoil and muzzle flip, which shocked me. The BIG con to the M&P 2.0 is the obnoxiously rough grip texture. Wear an undershirt or be very, very sore.

The P228 felt the most solid, and did well in long range shooting. The P320 feels good in the hand but its higher than average bore axis and light weight dont do it any favors when trying to shoot fast.

Like I mentioned beofre, the G19 is a great pistol overall. I was planning on ditching the G19 for either the 2.0 or P320, but had to think twice after shooting them all together.


I find it to be comical when the “high bore axis” boogeyman comes out.

High bore axis has absolutely zero to do with speed shooting.




www.opspectraining.com

"It's a bold strategy, Cotton. Let's see if it works out for them"



March 25, 2019, 08:24 PM
Cous2492
quote:
Originally posted by jljones:
quote:
Originally posted by Cous2492:
I just did a range session with the following guns:

M&P 2.0 Compact 9mm
Glock 19 G4
Sig P320 Comapact 9mm
Sig P228

All guns had 15 round 9mm magazines and were loaded with Blazer Brass 115gr FMJ.

Overall, I liked the G19. However, the M&P had the least felt recoil and muzzle flip, which shocked me. The BIG con to the M&P 2.0 is the obnoxiously rough grip texture. Wear an undershirt or be very, very sore.

The P228 felt the most solid, and did well in long range shooting. The P320 feels good in the hand but its higher than average bore axis and light weight dont do it any favors when trying to shoot fast.

Like I mentioned beofre, the G19 is a great pistol overall. I was planning on ditching the G19 for either the 2.0 or P320, but had to think twice after shooting them all together.


I find it to be comical when the “high bore axis” boogeyman comes out.

High bore axis has absolutely zero to do with speed shooting.



I was with you until yesterday. The p320 did have more recoil. No two ways about it. If you can attribute that to something else, I would be interested.
March 25, 2019, 08:27 PM
jljones
Recoil spring weights. Guns being under or over sprung play a much bigger role. And oddly, they are generally over sprung.




www.opspectraining.com

"It's a bold strategy, Cotton. Let's see if it works out for them"



March 25, 2019, 08:41 PM
Cous2492
quote:
Originally posted by jljones:
Recoil spring weights. Guns being under or over sprung play a much bigger role. And oddly, they are generally over sprung.


That's interesting. I can't rule it out, but the G19 has thousands of rounds through it, the 2.0 is unknown (I got it used), and the p320 has about 300 rounds through it.

I was shocked by the muzzle rise I was getting from the p320.
March 25, 2019, 09:05 PM
SSAreGreat
quote:
Originally posted by Cous2492:
quote:
Originally posted by jljones:
Recoil spring weights. Guns being under or over sprung play a much bigger role. And oddly, they are generally over sprung.


That's interesting. I can't rule it out, but the G19 has thousands of rounds through it, the 2.0 is unknown (I got it used), and the p320 has about 300 rounds through it.

I was shocked by the muzzle rise I was getting from the p320.


I agree with you. I also found the SIG 320 has much muzzle rise. Nice pistol but not for me.


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Liberty is a well armed Lamb!
March 25, 2019, 09:18 PM
Anubismp
I'd go 2.0 between the choices listed but I'd prefer a G17 or 19.
March 26, 2019, 12:23 AM
sigarms229
For me it's easy, the P320.

Feels better in the hand and I shoot them better than the M&P series guns.



Sometimes, you gotta roll the hard six
March 26, 2019, 11:03 AM
jljones
quote:
Originally posted by Cous2492:
quote:
Originally posted by jljones:
Recoil spring weights. Guns being under or over sprung play a much bigger role. And oddly, they are generally over sprung.


That's interesting. I can't rule it out, but the G19 has thousands of rounds through it, the 2.0 is unknown (I got it used), and the p320 has about 300 rounds through it.

I was shocked by the muzzle rise I was getting from the p320.


Likely it is how you hold on to the gun. Slow motion video does not back up your conclusions.

Edited- it also depends on what version of the gun you have. There have been 14 different slide profiles, spring weights, and versions. The data dated present day compact has no advantage or detriment over the Glock on slow motion video. It is als represented by sight tracking drills.




www.opspectraining.com

"It's a bold strategy, Cotton. Let's see if it works out for them"



March 26, 2019, 11:34 AM
Cous2492
quote:
Originally posted by jljones:
quote:
Originally posted by Cous2492:
quote:
Originally posted by jljones:
Recoil spring weights. Guns being under or over sprung play a much bigger role. And oddly, they are generally over sprung.


That's interesting. I can't rule it out, but the G19 has thousands of rounds through it, the 2.0 is unknown (I got it used), and the p320 has about 300 rounds through it.

I was shocked by the muzzle rise I was getting from the p320.


Likely it is how you hold on to the gun. Slow motion video does not back up your conclusions.

Edited- it also depends on what version of the gun you have. There have been 14 different slide profiles, spring weights, and versions. The data dated present day compact has no advantage or detriment over the Glock on slow motion video. It is als represented by sight tracking drills.



Okay, you are entitled to your opinion. I can just give my findings. And I wont say that it is 100% a bore axis issue, I can just say that shooting quickly with the p320 took more effort. The front sight moved more than the others (including the p228). I can also say that the G19 has thousands of rounds through it and is at least six years old. The P320 is about a year old and has very few rounds through it. So, if its a spring issue, its on Sig for not designing the gun with the right springs. I can also tell you that it is not how I hold the gun. I carry a weapon professionally, I shoot competitively, and consider myself to be more than competent with firearms.

To the OP, please dont take my post as bashing the P320. I would (and do) carry one with confidence.
March 26, 2019, 11:42 AM
BBMW
Have you tried the M&P 2.0? It might be worth the effort.

quote:
Originally posted by sigarms229:
For me it's easy, the P320.

Feels better in the hand and I shoot them better than the M&P series guns.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: BBMW,
March 26, 2019, 02:08 PM
sigarms229
I have. It was a rental fullsize 9mm and while I do think it was an improvement over the 1st generation gun, I'm just not fond of the M&P Series.

Don't get me wrong, I put them above some guns like the Ruger SR series, anything Taurus or Canik makes, but I'd rather have a P320, Glock, or VP9 over a M&P.



quote:
Have you tried the M&P 2.0? It might be worth the effort.

quote:
Originally posted by sigarms229:
For me it's easy, the P320.

Feels better in the hand and I shoot them better than the M&P series guns.




Sometimes, you gotta roll the hard six
March 26, 2019, 08:05 PM
jljones
quote:
Originally posted by Cous2492:
Okay, you are entitled to your opinion. I can just give my findings. And I wont say that it is 100% a bore axis issue, I can just say that shooting quickly with the p320 took more effort. The front sight moved more than the others (including the p228). I can also say that the G19 has thousands of rounds through it and is at least six years old. The P320 is about a year old and has very few rounds through it. So, if its a spring issue, its on Sig for not designing the gun with the right springs. I can also tell you that it is not how I hold the gun. I carry a weapon professionally, I shoot competitively, and consider myself to be more than competent with firearms.

To the OP, please dont take my post as bashing the P320. I would (and do) carry one with confidence.


Big Grin

It's not "my opinion". It is the results of slow motion (and high speed) video tests that I have been involved in testing various pistols.

First off, you have to have someone with a really good grip. Secondly, shoot guns and repeat. This false idea of Glock's having "less recoil" and "emrmaghad high bore axis" gets dispelled fairly quickly when the rubber meets the road. You don't see a discernible difference in actual recoil until you submit a metal framed gun against any polymer.

The whole Glock thing? Oh yeah, they are over sprung big time still to this day. What you see with the Gen 5 guns is the gun actually dips below line of sight because of being over sprung. This causes the shooter to have to bring the sights back up to the point that you are driving the sights to, causing both time and extra effort below a .30 split. I guess it's Glocks fault by your logic, huh? The truth of the matter is manufacturers don't optimize spring weights in pistols. It's not their job. The Gen5, for instance, was built around the 147 Grain G2. The way that the gun is sprung to accommodate the G2, as well as the other popular defensive style loads is a balancing act.

The M&P is oversprung as well. To a lesser degree than the Glock. That's why people like Frank Proctor optimize the gun with a different spring to keep the gun from dipping. Same with the Glock, same with......the P320.

So, no, it's not "my opinion". It's the result of a shit load of shooting and research into various weapons and what their recoil impulse contributes or takes away from speed shooting. The P320 shines at .20 splits. The 2.0 is about .17-18 split hot point. The Gen5 guns? .25-.28.

You want to talk about a noticeable difference? Look at the PX4 in slow motion. There's one that I will give you has "less recoil".




www.opspectraining.com

"It's a bold strategy, Cotton. Let's see if it works out for them"



March 26, 2019, 08:31 PM
evolution
quote:
Originally posted by Cous2492:

Like I mentioned beofre, the G19 is a great pistol overall. I was planning on ditching the G19 for either the 2.0 or P320, but had to think twice after shooting them all together.



Just wait until you try a Gen 5 Glock 19.

I had already decided on Glock after owning M&P 1.0, Compact, Shield, Bodyguard and 2.0. I also owned Sig 320c and 320FS as well as the 220, 225, 226, 228 and the 229.

Glock may not be perfect, but I find they just plain work.

...


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March 26, 2019, 08:33 PM
andronicus
The trigger on the Smith has a lot of overtravel. Just saying.