During some training I had today, my instructor had me doing emergency magazine changes of various types under a timer. I have a habit of slamming my magazines home, but today I learned that that practice has potential problems. I had a few cluster (*&- today using that method. In one case, a round turned upside down vertically INSIDE the magazine with the bullet pointing DOWN. My instructor explained the causes of the problems I was having, and told me to firmly press the mags into the gun, but stop slamming them into the gun. He said when I slam the mag, CZ and Sig guns have the habit of shuffling bullets around in the mag as the spring bounces around with the slamming forces involved, hence the malfunctions. Funny thing is, I never had these problems just punching paper, but today I was shooting under stress with a very qualified instructor, handling lots of information and methods at an accelerated pace. Another funny thing is, my gun is a steel CZ 75D compact, very good quality, and has never given me problems.

So my questions are:

1) Have you experienced problems like these related to slamming a magazine home ?

2) Would stronger mag springs help prevent these problems ?

Any advice much appreciated.

How is that even possible with a full magazine???

quote:

Originally posted by John3200:
How is that even possible with a full magazine???

That is my thought. But say you were a few rounds short in a magazine, how hard are you slamming your magazine into your pistol?

A couple of thoughts. I will freely admit I have little time on CZ products. But, I have shot just about everything else. A lot. And I have never faced rounds turning around backwards in the magazine while seating it. Nor have I ever seen it. And my average emergency reload is less than 1.3 and is aggressive.

Now, with partially loaded magazines I have seen bullets turn around in the magazine when it hits the ground on reload. That is a for sure sign of a weak magazine spring. Some of my older training mags do it, and I don't care. For matches and carry I keep things maintained properly.

Short answer- If the mags allow that to happen, get rid of them for carry. If the gun won't allow slamming the magazine in, get rid of the gun. There are lots of great choices out there that are less fragile if you know what I mean.

Don't "slam" your mags. There's no reason to do so, and no good can come of it. As far as rounds turning the wrong direction in the magazine, I'd look for another explanation. All this tactical crap....arrgh. Learn to shoot well, handle your weapon, and do reasonably fast mag swaps. Other than that, WTH, you gonna be taking on biker gangs with a handgun?

No the problems were with partially full mags. Would fresh or stronger springs help ? And yes they were hitting the cement floor from my face height. That was probably it.

I'd start there dude. I'm sure that Wolf makes good springs for them.

I’ll be honest. Didn’t even think that was possible. Jljones, was the top round turned or one somewhere in the stack? I might start slamming just to see this. Lol

http://modernserviceweapons.com/?p=5597#more-5597

An older article I wrote on the matter. This is how it starts on a single bounce. If it hits anything else the round turns around.

I notice I start to have these issues (Bullets flipping, stripping rounds on reloads,etc) when feed lips start getting out of spec. It might be worth a check in addition to the springs. Granted my issues are generally with 2011 magazines which are ridiculously finicky.

Not to be a smartass, but if the mags were changed out before they were empty, why are you putting them back in not knowing how many rounds are in them? I understand the whole tactical mag change concept, just not picking them back up and running them again. But at least now you know something you didn't...

Iv'e seen it on a couple different platforms but only after an attempt at a nasty malfunction clearance drill.

It seems that a round that is partially sticking out of the front of the mag can cause all types of issues while the slide is being manipulated and the mag snatched out.



it's hard to observe sometimes because I have always taught or been taught the "fix it!...Fix it!" routine on malfunctions. So dynamic clearance verses hand in the air admin crap.

Lock, rip, rack and re-insert takes a little practice.

When the dark ages of the revolver was waning and I took my first auto pistol class, I was told that slamming the magazine could damage it and the pistols magazine release.
I have not slammed a mag since and I have instructed others to do the same.
The only time I have seen the cartridge rotate in a magazine was when the partially loaded magazine was dropped base first onto concrete. I don't recall which model of magazine was involved.
My favorite Hollywood mag slam? Tom Selleck slams the crap out of his 1911 mag in the opening credits of Magnum, P.I.

yes that is what was happening. I was dropping partially filled mags from the gun hitting the concrete base first.

To answer JDG's question about why I was picking up partially loaded mags from the floor, it was between drills, but I wasn't allowed to reload them, because they contained enough rounds for the next drill. It wasn't my idea, my preference would have been to reload each mag to full prior to each drill. Oh well.

I think I'm gonna replace the mag springs in all of the three mags I was using in those drills. Couldn't hurt. But I'm not sure if I should get standard pressure mag springs from Wolff, or +1 next miminum step over standard spring strength.