Buy the 1911. Shoot it. Be happy.

quote:

Originally posted by arcwelder:
Buy the 1911. Shoot it. Be happy.

Indeed! The 1911 is not the only pistol capable of possessing both fine function and good looks all in one package - but not many others do it so darn well!

Shown: Les Baer UTC 1911 and the first target I shot with it, eight rounds of 230-gr FMJ at 7 yards. This gun is carried and fired regularly, just passed the 3,000-round mark during a recent local defensive handgun class.

quote:

Originally posted by bendable:

He went on to say that 3 dozen men tried hitting a 12 inch x 12 inch target at 35 feet and the hit ratio was miserable.

I use to shoot IDPA (a lot) and I've seen many competitors use 1911s and the above is simply bunk.

I'm no 'top shot.' I have a 1911 and I've routinely hit 8" steel plates at 35 yards.

Honestly, they must have been using a very worn out 1911.

I'll pass on some advice I got when I was looking for a 1911 - don't buy a cheap 1911. To get something good you're probably looking 900+. If you want something really good it's going to be way over that.

Col. Charles Askins, if you remember him, used to write that old military ones were "lucky to stay on the bottom of a #3 washtub at 50 yards." (Whatever "#3" means. I would guess a couple of feet in diameter.) Even that will still "plug a jazbo spang thru the brisket" at close quarters. I think he was probably being hyperbolic, just like the guy in the OP.

My beef with 1911s is that none of the three I had would fire more than two consecutive shots. These were a Para-Ordnance P12 (other than the double-stack magazine, a copy of the Officer's ACP), a 1990s Colt, and a new SIG. I don't blame the design for this, however, I blame deviation from the original design and/or poor quality control.

45acp is an inherently accurate caliber.

Sarcasm aside, I've owned around a dozen 1911's over the years. Colt, Ruger, Smith and Wesson, Kimber, Springfield, and Dan Wesson. The only one I had that was problematic was a Kimber TLE that I picked up used. It had issues with FTF, FTE, and brass to the face. After replacing the extractor and then the firing pin stop the gun was about 95% of where I wanted it to be. I ended up trading it to someone who wanted a project gun.

I still own a Colt Government Model, a Springfield TRP, a Dan Wesson Valor, and just recently purchased a 3 inch Colt Defender. All of them have been perfectly reliable thus far, and all of them are accurate. The Dan Wesson and the TRP both stack rounds into a ragged hole at 10 yards off hand. The full size Colt stays in the 8 ring, and even the Defender keeps all rounds in a six inch circle. I've never bothered to shoot them rested at 25 for groups, but I can hit 10 inch plates without much difficulty with the full size guns out to 50 yards. The limitation there is my ability to see the things and hold the sights steady, not the gun. I'm not 20 (or 30...or 40) anymore.

I don't recommend a 1911 as a carry gun for folks who aren't gun people. They require training and practice to engage and disengage the safety as required. They are heavier than the modern plastic guns and are more maintenance intensive. In my experience though they are easy to shoot and easy to conceal (even the full size guns are slim and conceal well IWB). If I was allowed to carry a personally owned weapon on duty my TRP would be the top of my list.

thanks for Free Wille, I needed a big grin after 5 days of over cast skys

called the gun shop about rentals etc ,
recording said "all of or staff is busy , please call back"

So Bendable - to cut to the chase - Have these many comments chased your mind? When I was young and stupid (I'm much older now), the two pistols I didn't want were a 1911 and a Glock. After joining USPSA, my next 10 buys were 1911s and Glocks - 1911s for their simplicity of operation and accuracy, and Glocks for their reliability and consistent trigger pull.

You all do realize bendable, swayed by everybody’s overwhelming praise, will buy a 1911 and end up getting the most inaccurate out of spec pistol ever to leave the factory.

It’s why I hate praising or talking up restaurants to folks because of course when they go the service and food will most certainly suck.

quote:

Originally posted by cslinger:
You all do realize bendable, swayed by everybody’s overwhelming praise, will buy a 1911 and end up getting the most inaccurate out of spec pistol ever to leave the factory.

quote:

Originally posted by bendable:
called the gun shop about rentals

I advise anyone who is not familiar with a particular gun platform to try a model prior to purchase. That way the shooter better understands if the gun is really something they want to own and shoot down the road. Trying a shop's rental 1911 is a good place to start.

We all have our own opinions and preferences related to firearms. The more experienced the shooter is, and the more proficient the shooter is, the more likely that person can reasonably compare the utility among various firearms.

1911 pistols are of a basic design, however individual models can vary dramatically. A value-line 1911 that has seen hard use will feel and will shoot differently than semi-custom/full-custom 1911s that list for $5k to $6k.

If you like the rental shop's 1911, see if you can borrow someone's higher-end 1911 while at the range. Compare the models you've shot, then gather more information and feedback on various 1911s.

quote:

Originally posted by bendable:

Then I went to breakfast with a veteran who went through r.o.t.c. at Ft.Riley K.S. .

He was told by the weapons instructor that the 1911 was for looks only and NOT to pull it in self defense unless he was in an elevator,
because they were damn near useless .

He went on to say that 3 dozen men tried hitting a 12 inch x 12 inch target at 35 feet and the hit ratio was miserable.

Well yeah. Anyone who has done FAM fires with noobs will usually see a few even put rounds in the dirt. Nothing wrong with the weapon, it's the person behind it or a shitty instructor.

You got bad gouge.

quote:

Have these many comments chased your mind?

I am grateful for those that offered their opinions,
and will figure out a way to compare my Ruger and a 5 inch 1911,

The springfield that I am anxious about is not available near me , yet , at this time ,

but even if I have to wait for the snow to melt and go to a neighbor's shooting range,
I will be looking in too it.

the gun :
https://www.springfield-armory...nin-operator-45-acp/


A rōnin (浪人, "drifter" or "wanderer")[1][2] was a samurai without a lord or master during the feudal period (1185–1868) of Japan. A samurai became masterless upon the death of his master, or after the loss of his master's favor or privilege.[3]

In modern Japanese usage, sometimes the term is used to describe a salaryman who is unemployed or a secondary school graduate who has not yet been admitted to university.[4][5]

gotta figure its going to be a perfect fit , for me
as my e-mail address is
Wandersoff(n o s p a m)path

Ohhhh, now you've done it...

My Sig Carry (Commander size) 4". I also have a Springfield full size.

This is going to turn into a "You will buy a 1911 thread..."

quote:

Originally posted by bendable:

quote:

Have these many comments chased your mind?

I am grateful for those that offered their opinions,
and will figure out a way to compare my Ruger and a 5 inch 1911,

The springfield that I am anxious about is not available near me , yet , at this time ,

but even if I have to wait for the snow to melt and go to a neighbor's shooting range,
I will be looking in too it.

the gun :
https://www.springfield-armory...nin-operator-45-acp/


A rōnin (浪人, "drifter" or "wanderer")[1][2] was a samurai without a lord or master during the feudal period (1185–1868) of Japan. A samurai became masterless upon the death of his master, or after the loss of his master's favor or privilege.[3]

In modern Japanese usage, sometimes the term is used to describe a salaryman who is unemployed or a secondary school graduate who has not yet been admitted to university.[4][5]

gotta figure its going to be a perfect fit , for me
as my e-mail address is
Wandersoff(n o s p a m)path

I just bought a SA Range Officer Elite Operator in 9mm. Very nice pistol!

quote:

Originally posted by bendable:

quote:

Have these many comments chased your mind?

I am grateful for those that offered their opinions,
and will figure out a way to compare my Ruger and a 5 inch 1911,

The springfield that I am anxious about is not available near me , yet , at this time ,

but even if I have to wait for the snow to melt and go to a neighbor's shooting range,
I will be looking in too it.

the gun :
https://www.springfield-armory...nin-operator-45-acp/


A rōnin (浪人, "drifter" or "wanderer")[1][2] was a samurai without a lord or master during the feudal period (1185–1868) of Japan. A samurai became masterless upon the death of his master, or after the loss of his master's favor or privilege.[3]

In modern Japanese usage, sometimes the term is used to describe a salaryman who is unemployed or a secondary school graduate who has not yet been admitted to university.[4][5]

gotta figure its going to be a perfect fit , for me
as my e-mail address is
Wandersoff(n o s p a m)path

Go to the range and rent a 1911. Just about any range that rents guns will have a rental 1911. I'd recommend a Colt Competition 1911 if you're going to buy one.

quote:

Just about any range that rents guns will have a rental 1911.

thats the problem ,
In Phoenix we had six ranges or 8 , at one time.

thats not the case here in the midwest , unless you want to join a "club"

I know we are a bit away, but you don't need to join a club here in Bloomington.

quote:

Originally posted by bendable:

quote:

Just about any range that rents guns will have a rental 1911.

thats the problem ,
In Phoenix we had six ranges or 8 , at one time.

thats not the case here in the midwest , unless you want to join a "club"

Bendable,

I had my 1911 out today shooting a new handload I was trying out, and I thought of this thread, so I decided to snap a few target photos to demonstrate why you shouldn't give up on the 1911.

First, a little background. I'd say I'm a reasonably competent shooter. I'm not going to knock anybody's socks off, and I've shot with many folks who put me to shame, but I can usually put holes in the general area I'm aiming for. The crowning achievement of my shooting career so far has been passing my state's LE instructor qualification course, but it took me two tries to do that....so I'm definitely not God's gift to the shooting world by any means. I say all that to emphasize that looking at these photos, one should take into account that the limiting factor for accuracy here is definitely going to be me, not the gun.

My 1911 is a Springfield Loaded Stainless. It's very similar to the Ronin Operator I know you've been looking at...there are just a few primarily cosmetic differences. I'd expect them to shoot pretty much identically.

Mine came with a two-piece full-length guide rod, which I swapped out for a GI style because I prefer it. I believe the Ronin comes with the GI style from the factory. I also changed out the rear sight with a replacement from the factory, provided for free under warranty, because the gun was originally shooting high. Other than that there have been no modifications done to the gun.

IIRC I paid $800 out the door for it, so it's by no means a high-end 1911. The photo below is old, from before I got the replacement sight from Springfield.



The ammo I was shooting today was a handload straight out of the Speer manual, using Power Pistol under a 230gr Gold Dot. I put about 75 rounds though the gun today, and didn't experience a single hiccup or malfunction. This is typical behavior for this gun...it never gives me any trouble. I can't speak for the types to like to drag their weapons through mud or pour sand in them before shooting, though...I keep it well maintained and lubricated.

Here's my first target (a regulation size B27 center), 7 rounds, paced off at 19 yards:



And a second one, 7 rounds at 7 yards:



Hopefully this gives you a decent real-life idea of what you can expect from the specific gun you have been considering. While not perfect (once again, I'm sure that I as the shooter was the limiting factor, not the gun), I'd say it's a far cry from the story told by the guy in your OP.

I will be shooting at an 8 1/2 x 11 sheet of paper at 30'-40'

to see if the new gun will work