G9 Defense also makes a solid copper bullet. Their design is a little different than those already discussed:

https://g9defense.com/shop/pistol/

I have some on order and plan to do some testing.

Aaaaand solid copper projectiles are legal for taking game in California. Hornady monoflex for tge win. Make sure you have the correct tags.,

Yea that's a pretty stupid comment at the end of the video about 19 inches, very seriously stupid.

quote:

Originally posted by Pipe Smoker:

quote:

Originally posted by sigfreund:
<snip>
And now back to the discussion of solid copper bullets.

Thank you sir.

I’m looking for a .380 cartridge that’s more lethal than ball, with better penetration than most hollow points, and cycles reliably in my P238.

So I’m wondering if Lehigh with 68 grain copper bullets might be that happy compromise.

No cartridge is best for all situations, so, yes, compromise.

I've shot and carried 90 and 68 grain Lehigh Defense solid/fluted copper bullets in my Sig P238 pistols and they've functioned perfectly. The tissue disruption is as good or better than any other .380 ACP JHPs while simultaneously providing consistently better/reliable penetration.

^^^^^
Thanks for that report, pulicords.

Good photo too!

Maybe Buffalo bore heavy hardcast?

quote:

Originally posted by ruger357:
Maybe Buffalo bore heavy hardcast?

The original post included this caveat: “Possibly better penetration than hollow points, and more lethal than ball.” [Emphasis added.]

Although it shows only a single shot with each of the loads tested, the below video demonstrates what I would expect from the “hardcast” load: very deep penetration, but not as much energy transfer as the solid copper bullet with the nose design that’s supposed to increase wounding effects.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vu4GtRNVb5U

Just as a personal guess, I doubt that any 380 load is going to be much more lethal than any other, including ordinary FMJ.

Based on my opinions about non-LE self-defense situations, if I were going to depend on the cartridge and a small gun that fires it, my concern would be to have a load that was reliable in the weapon and that I could shoot as fast and accurately as possible. But then no one asked for my opinion about that.

I just bought some S&B XRG copper rounds in 9mm Parabellum.

Gentlemen, thank you for this discussion.
I carry an LCP quite often, and my wife's pistol is a Glock 42.

I just bought a few boxes of Lehigh Xtreme Defense 380 ACP 68 Gr from Ammunition Depot.
The last time I ordered from them was in 2016.

My very deep research on this subject, has 95 grain round nose Speer/CCI FMJ being a very good load. Pretty hot, and always tumbles, creating a decent wound track. Flat nose 95 grain is less apt to tumble and creates smaller wound tracks. Plus, 95 grain round nose FMJ is affordable. Because of the tumbling action, they usually have better performance than 9MM FMJ.

The copper fluted ammo is likely better. Be sure to test that its reliable in your gun. Several boxes worth, minimum. But if you dont want to spend $100 on ammo, Speer 95 grain FMJ is a good load.

These are the companion loads to Gold Dots (for training) so they are loaded hotter than many regular FMJ rounds. Good stuff.

https://www.targetsportsusa.co...et-53608-p-2199.aspx

quote:

My very deep research on this subject, has 95 grain round nose Speer/CCI FMJ being a very good load. Pretty hot, and always tumbles, creating a decent wound track.

Interesting info. Appears to be an ordinary bullet, so I wonder why it reliably tumbles.

quote:

Originally posted by bubbatime:
My very deep research on this subject, has 95 grain round nose Speer/CCI FMJ being a very good load. Pretty hot, and always tumbles ....

That’s not something I’ve ever heard, and it’s not true of other bullets of that type based on what I’ve seen. I wasn’t able to find a gel test for the specific CCI load, though, so do you have any links you can provide that show the effect?

As somewhat of an aside, when long-for-caliber rifle bullets tumble they transfer much of their energy because of the much greater drag as they’re traveling sideways. A bullet like a 95 grain 380 FMJ is much closer in shape to a sphere whose orientation wouldn’t matter much even if it does tumble.

quote:

Originally posted by Pipe Smoker:
Interesting info. Appears to be an ordinary bullet, so I wonder why it reliably tumbles.

Because it's a short stubby bullet, unlike a 9MM. It almost always tumbles.

^^^^^
Ah, so. Thanks.

quote:

Originally posted by sigfreund:

quote:

Originally posted by bubbatime:
My very deep research on this subject, has 95 grain round nose Speer/CCI FMJ being a very good load. Pretty hot, and always tumbles ....

That’s not something I’ve ever heard, and it’s not true of other bullets of that type based on what I’ve seen. I wasn’t able to find a gel test for the specific CCI load, though, so do you have any links you can provide that show the effect?

As somewhat of an aside, when long-for-caliber rifle bullets tumble they transfer much of their energy because of the much greater drag as they’re traveling sideways. A bullet like a 95 grain 380 FMJ is much closer in shape to a sphere whose orientation wouldn’t matter much even if it does tumble.

A fantastic article on .380 FMJ

https://www.marksmanshipmatter...munition-comparison/

Some quotes from the article:

-These 2 shots with the Winchester flat point bullet achieved more penetration than any of the other .380 loads that we included in this article despite the relatively low velocity. We believe that this occurred because neither of these bullets tumbled. Tumbling often occurs with .380 FMJ bullets but less frequently with flat nose bullets.

-The .380 projectile is somewhat stubby weighing only 88 to 102 grains and being .355 inches in diameter. As such the bullet tends to tumble after penetrating approximately 6 inches of ballistic gelatin. This indicates that the bullet may be tumbling when it reaches the vital organs. When the bullet tumbles, it creates a large wound cavity in the gel which is several inches in length and diameter. The bullet usually stops tumbling with the base facing in the direction of travel creating a full caliber flat point surface for the remainder of its travel. This tumbling could explain why emergency room doctors have reported a high percentage of victims shot with a .380 ACP FMJ expire from their wounds. The tendency to tumble is unpredictable and occurs in many but not all tests.

Round nose FMJ bullets are more likely to tumble than flat nose FMJ bullets which will also tumble but less often. Flat nose FMJ bullets will provide a slightly larger wound channel than round nose FMJ bullets when no tumbling occurs with either bullet.

There is some interest in flatnosed DGR bullets because they tend to penetrate buffalo, etc. straighter than roundnose.

Jeff Cooper liked the Hornady/USAF design of truncated cones because they penetrated straight.

quote:

Originally posted by bubbatime:
A fantastic article on .380 FMJ

Thanks. As for the "large wound cavity" claim, it would be interesting to see what that was based on. The gel tests I have seen didn't demonstrate anything spectacular.