BuddyCryst I traded into two of them and got the others for great prices.

With the 2022's excellent reputation, I took a look at one. The slight size difference between it and the 229 becomes major when I try to conceal either one, with the 229 having a definite advantage there.

If my choice was between the 2022 and the 226, the 2022 would be the choice, but for now I'm having trouble enough affording one pistol, so I'm looking for a 229 CPO around here.

quote:

Originally posted by rat2306:
Myself, I'm waiting for the SPC 2022 to make it to the USA. It may be a bit beefier than a Glock, but no hiccups and with the Medium grip actually feels better to my hand. Adoption by the French police forces (many of whom are actually paramilitary in nature) sold me on getting one several years ago.

So there's a compact model in the works?

In my humble opinion,the 2022 is the best polymer gun made.I shot a few sigs,226,229,and a 2022 and the 2022 in my hands was at least a 30 percent less recoil.

I traded my glock 34 for a 2022, 2 tone.

i just bought 2 more as i sold a vp9.i liked the vp9,but the slide release is almost impossible to thumb down without pulling slide back,and pushing latch down.

I really have had to accept that my physical limitations are as important in my weaker pistol shooting technique as much as any gun that does not work as good

the 2022 has a great slide release,,is compact enough for me when i wear a suit, or light jacket,and the rougher grip texture helps.I would love a 229,or 228,in 9mm,but they cost more,and do not shoot as easy as the 2022 for me.
I am on a goal to have a 2022 in every vehicle glove box i own.

I know different guns feel different in each owners hand.At 64.
I dont have near the hand or squeeze strength that i once did.
That lack of squeeze opens the door for more muzzle flip,gun twist in hand,a lot of issues,

quote:

Originally posted by rpm2010:

quote:

Originally posted by rat2306:
Myself, I'm waiting for the SPC 2022 to make it to the USA.

So there's a compact model in the works?

Not "in the works"... The SPC (Sig Pro Compact) has been out in Europe for over a decade, first as the SPC2009 and now the SPC2022. There are just no plans to bring it into the US.

And it's not truly a compact version. It's basically just a SP2009/SP2022, with a marginally shorter muzzle (~0.3 inch) and a flat magazine baseplate. Otherwise identical.

quote:

Originally posted by RogueJSK:

quote:

Originally posted by rpm2010:

quote:

Originally posted by rat2306:
Myself, I'm waiting for the SPC 2022 to make it to the USA.

So there's a compact model in the works?

Not "in the works"... The SPC (Sig Pro Compact) has been out in Europe for over a decade, first as the SPC2009 and now the SPC2022. There are just no plans to bring it into the US.

And it's not truly a compact version. It's basically just a SP2009/SP2022, with a marginally shorter muzzle (~0.3 inch) and a flat magazine baseplate. Otherwise identical.

I would like one though. I was out and about today, stopped at four dealers. No SPs at all, even used.

I wish Sig would've expanded on the Sig Pro line a lot more. They are fantastic firearms. I would've loved to see a truly compact single stack version similar to the P239 but with a polymer frame.

quote:

Originally posted by sigproshooter:
I would've loved to see a truly compact single stack version similar to the P239 but with a polymer frame.

That would be good. Given your handle here, you must like your Sig Pro.

What's the difference between the 2009 and 2022?

quote:

Originally posted by Bulldog7972:
What's the difference between the 2009 and 2022?

Primarily the accessory rail. The early SP2009 had a funky proprietary rail. The later SP2022 has a standard rail.

There are a few other minor changes, like the shape of the trigger guard.

quote:

Originally posted by jbourneidentity:
Bubbatime, no disrespect meant at all, but this mantra of, "cops don't shoot" has become tiresome and is not really relevant in this SP2022 conversation. There are plenty of cops on SigForum who are shooters. Jerry Jones is a cop. You want to tell me he's not a shooter? I'm a cop, and I'm not too shabby. Bob Vogel's a cop and he's probably the best guy on the planet right now. Not every cop is Yoda, to be sure, but there are many, many cops who try to be. To lump all cops into one non-shooting basket is a wrong and a much too common misconception on the interwebs.

I could say that most civilian gun owners aren't shooters, and I'd be right, but I don't. No reason to go there. Truth is, the only folks out there who are "shooters" in the way you're describing are professional competition shooters. So, no need to slag all American cops in a thread about the SP2022.

Police who frequent a firearms board are shooting enthusiasts, and more apt to take emphasis on their shooting. Most police are not firearms enthusiasts, which may explain why police tend to miss 80% of the time. J Jones is not only an avid shooter, but I believe also a SWAT instructor and team member, as well as operator of his own training corporation, and is a shooting competitor. His ability with a firearm is not reflective of the standard, and represents an example or goal...but not the norm.

So far as the 2022, I don't own one, but I do own multiples of the 2340. To me it's a plastic P229. None of mine were purchased new, but at the price I got them, couldn't turn them away. There is nothing, so far as I can tell, wrong with them or the design. They're reliable, light and have as good a trigger as any of the P series pistols. I probably won't ever carry mine, as I have others more suited to my needs, but I wouldn't hesitate to carry them or feel any concern for their reliability.

I'm still looking for .357 Sig barrels for them, but they're good as is.

quote:

which may explain why police tend to miss 80% of the time

A good deal of this is probably the “two way range” effect as well. Even stress introduced by timer or even force on force is no real training for the “HOLY SHIT THIS ASSHOLE IS ACTUALLY TRYING TO KILLIFY ME I GOTTA KILLIFY HIM FIRST AND I GOTTA GET THE HELL OUT OF DODGE LIKE NOW!!!” Not necessarily in that order.

I’m not saying there are not some steely eyed bad asses in the world but I think most folks LEO or not, suddenly realize bob and weave and be someplace else is more important then front sight press in the heat of the moment.

You could give me a belt fed and head to toe body armor and if rounds start coming my way I bet my accuracy takes a back seat too.

Back on topic I dig that “compact” SIGPRO. I also think it is done when the French contract ends. Striker is the way forward. I have gone backward back to DA/SA but hey I get more Luddite the older I get.

You folks who are saying Cops aren't shooters have no clue what you are talking about. That is because you are aren't Cops.

No real surprise, but we went off topic a bit.

To the original point of this, I'm honestly a little concerned for the SP. Well, concerned isn't the right word. But I doubt it gets renewed. Back in 2002, DA/SA was still quite popular. Heck, the P99 was basically DA/SA. SAI was just importing the XD, the M&P wouldn't come for another couple years. Forget about the plethora of strikers available today.

I don't think losing the French contract would really affect US production or sales, I imagine they're being made in Europe for that. But I could be wrong. And I don't know what they think of them. Haven't heard any displeasure reported, but who really monitors Europe's experiences here?

I kind of expect that they'll transition to something different. Not because the SP2022 isn't a great pistol. Just to move to something new. Either that, or they extend, but not renew. By that I mean they re-up for 3-5 years, assuming they have been pleased and don't have beat-to-hell firearms.

If the French discover how few holster makers there are for this gun, they may indeed move on.

I love the gun, hate holster shopping for it.

SPC2022? Now I'm interested. Has anybody seen them stateside?

quote:

Originally posted by 4859:
You folks who are saying Cops aren't shooters have no clue what you are talking about. That is because you are aren't Cops.

Well I have ten years in. I always shot a perfect score with a 2 inch group right on the heart.

Based on what I have seen, the vast majority of cops are not good shooters. Most at my department could barely qualify by only one or two shots. Several needed remedial every time they qualified. A very small minority, less than 15%, could easily qualify and get a perfect, or near perfect score.

The dirt in front of the target catches a lot of shots. The side walk 5 feet to my right even got shot.

I remember shooting steel with frangible in training. The tree had 6 round steel circles that fell over when shot with frangible ammo. The first 7 shooters completely missed all of the plates with every shot. 15 rounds down range times 7 officers and not a single plate was hit. The training folks about blew a gasket.

Feel free to believe that your local police force as a whole are excellent pistoleros. My experience at three departments says otherwise.

I have 12 years experience as a LEO. I'm also a firearms instructor, both for my agency as well as the local police academy.

Cadets are a whole 'nother animal, but most of the experienced officers that I've seen shoot are middling shooters. Not bad, but not great. Still better than the average gun owner. They can pass qualifications without any trouble, but may not shoot a high score. Usually in the 85%-90%ish range on qualification scores. They do okay in more advanced firearms drills too. They may not practice extensively, but they do practice occasionally, and they have decent fundamentals. And most agencies around here are implementing training programs involving quarterly firearms training, so even if they don't practice much on their own, they're still practicing at least every 3 months with their agency. (I'll bet that the majority of members here may practice less than every 3 months, and certainly the majority of civilian gun owners as a whole.)

Then there are some excellent LE shooters around here. I consider myself in this category, and I know a number of local guys who are much better shots than me. Some are even ranked/sponsored competitors. These excellent shooters excel not only in qualifications, where they shoot 95+% with ease, but in more advanced shooting drills as well. Guys like this practice frequently, both live fire and dry fire, as do I. But that's not the norm.

Then there are some really awful shooters in local law enforcement, to the point where they probably don't need to be carrying a gun. These are the ones that have to go back through remedial training just to eek out a passing score on their qualifications. But that's also not the norm.

I'd say I've seen more excellent shooters than poor shooters. If I had to guestimate some rough numbers, I'd say that ~15% of LEOs that I've seen are excellent shooters, ~75% are middling shooters, and ~10% are poor shooters.

But keep in mind that these are all on the range, with various different courses of fire and drills. Not in real-world shootings...

cslinger is on the right track. Everyone's ability to shoot declines under pressure, unless they've had significant extra training and stress-inoculation (think SWAT/ERT/etc.). Especially in sudden life-or-death scenarios. Excellent shooters on a square range become less excellent when bullets are flying back at them. Middling shooters may drop off towards poor in a defensive scenario, but they are typically still able to make effective hits during the fight due to their decent fundamentals. Poor shooters end up in the news after defensive shootings, after they fire 52 times and hit nothing but the neighbor's dog, their own foot, and four surrounding houses.

quote:

Originally posted by newtoSig765:
SPC2022? Now I'm interested. Has anybody seen them stateside?

Again, they're not available in the US, and there are no plans to bring them into the US. People have been asking for over a decade, to no avail.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: RogueJSK,

I guess there's no such thing as a grey market as with cars, watches, cameras, etc.