I have a very nice J frame Smith and Wesson 60-15 which had been having problems with misfires. I looked it over and even went so far as to remove the firing pin and clean the canal (not sure as to the nomenclature). I noted the tip of the pin has what looked like mall "chips" or deformities. I figure the next step is to replace the firing pin. I've seen factory pins for sale and also from two companies, Apex and TK's. Do these aftermarket pins offer better performance or reliability? What about aftermarket spring kits? I happen to have a Wilson Comat spring kit I ordered on a lark. Do these spring kits offer any benefits with respect to reliability?

With any replacement kit like Apex, etc., they can improve trigger pull but not all ammo/primer types will fire from them. I don't know about the quality being any better or worse compared to the factory but you can always pick up an extra factory part on Numerich. I have a couple J frames with the Apex kit and really like them. The trigger pull is lighter and I have shot a few different types of ammo through them to make sure there are no issues with the function of either gun.

I can't comment on the Wilson kit, as I don't have one but they seem to work the same. They are easy to install and the only tool (s) you really need are a paperclip, if you don't have a small pin available to catch the hammer spring and a ball point pen for the return spring I believe it's called. There are a bunch of videos online to show you what I mean and encourage you to watch one for an easy install.

quote:

Originally posted by DeputyCG:
I have a very nice J frame Smith and Wesson 60-15 which had been having problems with misfires. I looked it over and even went so far as to remove the firing pin and clean the canal (not sure as to the nomenclature). I noted the tip of the pin has what looked like mall "chips" or deformities. I figure the next step is to replace the firing pin. I've seen factory pins for sale and also from two companies, Apex and TK's. Do these aftermarket pins offer better performance or reliability? What about aftermarket spring kits? I happen to have a Wilson Comat spring kit I ordered on a lark. Do these spring kits offer any benefits with respect to reliability?

I can’t speak to the firing pin specifically, but I’ve installed the Apex kit on several J frames over the years. It does a nice job as far as smoothing out the trigger pull. IMO, the magic has more to do with the hammer spring and rebound spring than anything else. I look at the firing pin and spring as an afterthought. I’m pretty sure that the Wilson kit is more or less the same thing.

I will offer this tho - if you’re installing the full kit, make sure you have the proper rebound slide tool and get the slide and spring seated correctly. If you don’t, you’ll have trigger return issues. That part can be a PITA to get lined up perfectly. The last time I did a 60-14, I could not get the rebound slide action correct with the Apex spring and wound up going back to the factory spring. Revolvers can be finicky and you need to be patient.

I would recommend trying an extended FP from C&S (if they still make them) or TK. As far as actions go, I usually add a reduced weight 8 lb hammer spring (factory is 8.5 lb) & 13 lb. rebound spring (if I'm getting solid trigger return).

Apex, TK Custom, & Wolff sells these kits. Apex & TK probably get springs from Wolff.

Obviously lightening up your hammer spring won't help with the light strikes, but a combo of adding the extended FP may work.

I believe Nelson Ford (The Gunsmith) adds extended FPs to all his action jobs for reliability.

The “ modern” frame mounted firing pins are known for less than stellar ignition. An extended one from apex may be an option

For me I won’t buy a centerfire S&W with the newer style frame mounted pin. Give me the old school hammer nose

Personally I'm not a fan of aftermarket springs in J-Frames. It doesn't take much to get the hammer spring too light for reliable ignition (especially if you're going to feed the gun a wide variety of ammo), and if you go too light on the rebound spring you can short-stroke the trigger when shooting fast. Yeah, guys have good results slicking up competition revolvers, but they also have a very refined and practiced technique and shoot specific loads. For the average guy like me factory is best.

Since you're already having light strikes, I'd try one thing at a time. Sounds like you've already cleaned the firing pin channel without success (I have seen crud and burrs in these cause problems).

How's the end-shake in the cylinder when it's locked up in the gun? Any slop front to back is going to cause headspace issues and if it's bad enough could be causing your problem and needs to be addressed.

Next step IMO would be to try a new firing pin and see if that solves the problem. My preference would be factory, particularly if you think your original is damaged, but one of the extended ones would probably be fine too. If that doesn't fix the problem then I'd look at replacing the springs with new factory weight ones.

Agree with 92FS tech. And one of my phrases to live by:
A heavy reliable trigger beats a light unreliable one every time

Well using that analogy why not buy an even heavier hammer spring? Can’t be too careful right?

I have replaced springs and buffed parts in at least a dozen Rugers and Smiths. Then they go to the range with a bunch of ammo to test reliability. If they bobble at all then a heavier spring or springs goes in.

Once you accept the fact that the hammer spring is at least partially if not mostly a $$$$ decision then playing around with lighter springs becomes easy.

Heavier springs = harder to pull the trigger = lower liability. Heavier springs = light off even the hardest primers = less warranty work.

Snubbies are harder to hit with for a bunch of reasons. Doing a trigger job and lowering the weights till you gain improvement without loss of reliability makes it easier to hit with. It also makes support hand use easier which is a consideration.

The point is that you can’t just swap stuff and call it a day. If I had to buy a gun on day one and carry it on day two, I would leave it stock. I don’t have to do that. I can fluff and buff, lower spring weights and drop half a case of ammo through it. Then and only then would I carry it.

People think stock parts are magic. I’ve owned plenty of guns that had to go back to the factory immediately. They ain’t magic. Nor is the hammer spring the weight the engineer actually wanted. It was a committee decision to satisfy many masters.

Here’s an example that is 100% factual. HK, the god of handheld weaponry to many, designed their magazines 2 rounds short of everybody else for decades. HK’s were always in the short end of the capacity wars. Guys would even defend that decision as “reliability to hell and back”. Ignoring the fact that the magazines from the other guys with 2 extra rounds didn’t fail. Fast forward to a few years ago. Magically the exact same guns with the exact same mag tubes somehow sprouted the ability to carry the 2 extra rounds. New spring, baseplate, follower. Same length. Even made mod kits.

Play with the springs. Then test it. Yes it will cost you $$$$. The results will be better.


As for your particular gun it sounds like you have a defective firing pin potentially. When you swap that try $15 worth of springs as well. I hate swapping trigger return springs in Smiths though. They sell a tool but it still is kind of wonky. Part of the reason as I get older I prefer working on Rugers.

I agree...nothing wrong with trying stuff out as long as you verify function thoroughly afterwards. I've just had really bad luck with lighter springs. I've tried Apex, Wilson, Wolff, and one other brand I can't remember that somebody gave me...all got light strikes in guns that were 100% reliable with factory springs. I did keep the Wilson main springs in my N and L-frame .44s because the factory ones were just unbearably heavy, but I had to shim the strain screw to maintain reliable ignition. Can't do that on a J-Frame. Just my experience...YMMV.

And yeah, I also hate dealing with that rebound spring. I'm always afraid I'm going to bend or break the pin. I've had Smith revolvers apart probably somewhere between 50 and 100 times and it hasn't happened yet, but with my luck it's only a matter of time.

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Originally posted by 92fstech:
And yeah, I also hate dealing with that rebound spring. I'm always afraid I'm going to bend or break the pin. I've had Smith revolvers apart probably somewhere between 50 and 100 times and it hasn't happened yet, but with my luck it's only a matter of time.

That’s exactly where I’m at - it seems like every time I F with the rebound spring and slide, it start getting trigger return issues. Now I just leave that one alone unless I have a specific reason to address it.