Good morning, SF.

I went shooting with a friend yesterday and watched him have some trouble getting consistent hits with his P365. My pal is a big fella, with big ol' hands. P365 fits my hand great, but I'm wondering if it's simply "not enough gun" for his hands. I could hit the spinning steel target with his gun fairly consistently; his shots were all around it.

When he picked up an M11-A1, though, his shots were more consistently placed. That pistol seemed to fit his hand better and he seemed more comfortable with it. It was somewhat easier for him to shoot a bigger pistol well.

After we got back to my house I asked him to get my own P365 in his hand. I've put the Hogue HandALL grip sleeve on it. He said it felt better in his hand due to the added thickness of the grip. However, the width of the first finger groove below the trigger guard is too small for his finger.

So my primary questions this morning are:
1) can a gun simply be "too small" for a person's hand, or can that be overcome, and
2) is there a similar grip sleeve available for P365 but without the finger grooves?

Perhaps there's another good way to make him a better shot with his P365?

Is there an inherent difficulty with the big-hands-small-pistol combination?

There's a reason that Sig offered three different size grips for the P320.

The P365 is a small pistol. I wouldn't put too much concern in what someone does with it right out of the gate, but would be more interested in how they do after spending some time with the pistol. Put a few thousand rounds downrange and see how their experience changes.

There are a lot of firearms I might pick up, that I might not shoot my best with. Give me some time with them, and I anticipate doing better. I think that's true for anyone.

Your friend might feel better with a P365XL, perhaps with a handall on that.

quote:

Originally posted by vthoky:
1) can a gun simply be "too small" for a person's hand ...?

I don’t believe there’s any question about that.

There are countless examples of efforts by manufacturers to tailor the size of gun grips for individuals with different hand sizes going back at least decades. One of the most common modifications users of S&W J frame revolvers made when they were popular was to put larger stocks on them. At one time the degree that grip size change was possible was more limited, but today with polymer grips and grip modules we’re seeing a proliferation of efforts to do that. There’s still a limit to how small something like a P320 grip can be made, but even a small reduction in size can help some people, and increasing the size of Classic line SIG pistol grips has been possible and popular for a long time with aftermarket offerings from Hogue.

MDT even offers a vertical grip for precision rifles that can be adjusted forward and back slightly for different hand sizes, and that’s just to fine tune the shooter’s finger position on the trigger without changing the other factors involved in a handgun’s grip and control of the gun when shooting.

I was very surprised by how well the P365 fits my hand and allows me to engage targets almost instinctively, but I can see how it could be too small for many men. We are already seeing that many shooters prefer the XL version of the gun, and I suspect that as its popularity grows, other aftermarket grip modules will be offered, just as are available for the P320.

I find the 365 grip to be a bit too small. You stated no finger grooves so that leaves out the Hogue sleeve, but the Hogue sleeve adds a bit of girth that I found helpful. I recently went to the Talon Grips "PRO" grip, which gives the grip slightly more girth and improves the traction. It's an improvement over the stock grip, IMO. Here's a description of the Talon PRO from the website:

TALON Grips PRO grip material combines the best characteristics of the granulate and rubber textures. The surface of the grip is made of ground-up rubber and provides an aggressive grip without being abrasive. The PRO texture is comfortable enough for most people to carry against the skin and aggressive enough for competition.

Without question small pistols are harder for me to shoot as accurately as a little larger pistol. I've seen Hickock45 shoot a lot of small guns with his big mitts so I know it's just a matter of training though. At the risk of sounding like a mall ninja I'm learning the difference between combat accuracy and range accuracy too. I don't carry a full size 1911 but if I was to edc my most accurate gun I'd be carrying a Wilson Combat.

Yes. I had the exact same problem as your friend with the P365. The gun is just too small for me to achieve a solid grip on it. I have long hands, and long fingers. The grip on the 365 is so small that there is excess space between it and my hand when I grip it, and it would jump in my hand under recoil. My results on target were fine, but the gun would pinch my trigger finger between the trigger and the trigger guard, and it would start hurting pretty badly after just one magazine.

I put a Hogue handall jr grip sleeve on it (the generic one, not the one made for the 365, since that one didn't exist yet), and that mostly solved my problem. Ultimately, though, I ended up giving that gun to one of our new guys at work (it was an issued backup), and convinced them to buy me a P320 SC instead. That gun fits my hand better (with a medium grip module), and shares mags with my duty gun. I've been much happier with it. The P365 is just too small.

I went all in on the 365 only to find out that I could not shoot or grip it consistently. Too small, even with a grip sleeve. No problem with the the gun operationally, just not a good fit. I went to the G26 and had way better luck.

Another problem comes with the ultra small pistols like the P3AT and CW380 and big hands.

The combination tends to lead to jams, feeding problems and stovepipes.

I don’t have big hands. Try shooting my Sig 290RS. It’s crazy tiny front to back. At the end of trigger press your finger is uncomfortably close to your palm. Yes, there is something as too small.

The 1st question would be does he have a proper grip? Which of course can't be diagnosed in this thread.

Yes a gun can be small but a proper grip will lock it in far better than the way I see most people typically grip a handgun.

Next, I just got a P365 but before I even ordered the gun, I picked up an XL grip module. I like it a lot better than the regular P365 grip so that is something to try.

Same here. The P365 is too small for me and something I'm not interested in, as is a Glock 19.

I have better luck with P220s and P226s (as well as Glock 20s & 21s) than others.

Seems my paws are better suited for a 2011 or a Desert Eagle. The surprising exception would a P238. I think the P238 works great with everybody that has tried it, or at lease tried mine.

I found the 365 with 10 round mags too small for me.
I can make it go bang but it moves around too much.
After over 30 years of wrenching I need more than two fingers on the grip. I pretty much need all hands on deck so to speak.
I wear a size large in gloves.


An XL grip with a Hogue sleeve made it more manageable and most important to me, comfortable to shoot more than a box of ammo with.
With the sleeve it has about the same width as a 229 with Hogue Piranha grips.

Yeah the P365 is tool small for my hands also. By contrast I shoot my Walther PPS very well for me. Too little trigger reach is mostly the problem for me with the P365. While with time I am sure I could shoot it better I figured why bother with a pistol for self defense purposes. Trying to get a grip that is just right on a pistol that does not fit me well does not bode well for times when I might need to get it out of the holster fast and onto the target. I have much more confidence in shooting my Walther PPS well and would rather CCW a few less rounds. If I feel I need more rounds on board I CCW my Gen 2 Glock 19.

Here is an example of me shooting 2 different subcompact pistols at 21 feet where one fits me well and the other does not. First target is Springfield Hellcat and second target is my Walther PPS.

A straight trigger worked better for me over the curved one for reach.

quote:

Originally posted by Strambo:
The 1st question would be does he have a proper grip? Which of course can't be diagnosed in this thread.

Yes a gun can be small but a proper grip will lock it in far better than the way I see most people typically grip a handgun.

Next, I just got a P365 but before I even ordered the gun, I picked up an XL grip module. I like it a lot better than the regular P365 grip so that is something to try.

Two good points here, and thank you for them.

First up, my pal's got an interesting grip. To start, he's left-handed. I don't think that makes much difference with his pistol shooting, but using an AR can be a little awkward. Anyway, I noticed yesterday the pistol is seated well in his left hand, with his right hand wrapped around for support. But his right index finger is wrapped around the front of the trigger guard, trying to pull the gun more firmly into his hand. I don't know if that's good or bad -- it's just different from anything I've seen before.

And second, I like the idea of swapping an XL grip module. Is that better suited to a big hand, perhaps wider than the standard grip module? And how big a thing is it to swap back and forth? His wife doesn't have the big ol' bear paws he's got, but likes the gun. Looks like it's just a matter of pushing out one pin?

quote:

Originally posted by powermad:
A straight trigger worked better for me over the curved one for reach.

Heck, I'd like to try a straight trigger. How tough to install is that?

Straight triggers for me in P320s and P365. Installing a straight trigger in the P365 is not too difficult. I recommend the instruction video linked on the Grayguns site.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9mAgSpgXci8

Wrapping one's support hand index finger around the front of the trigger guard became a thing at one point because of the stupid hooks the Germans started putting on their pistols decades ago. Because, evidently, some people just couldn’t not use something that was offered up, it became popular for a time. I admit that I tried it myself with my P7, but fortunately it didn’t take me too long to realize that it added nothing to my control and actually interfered with it.

Most pistols these days, especially those of European manufacture or at least heritage still have the trigger guard hooks, but few* serious shooters have used them with their support hand index fingers for a long time. Most shooters do better by wrapping all four support fingers around the front of their shooting grip, and should be encouraged to do so, even if the gun is small for them.

* Not none, but I am convinced that the good shooters who still hang their fingers out front of the rest of the support hand could probably do even better if they didn’t. But that’s just blind prejudice talking.

I don't have big hands but tried the HOGUE Beavertail sleeve. It added to much to the grip so I took it off. What I did find work (for me) is to use the PEARCE magazine base plates on the 10rd magazines.

https://www.pearcegrip.com/Products/SIG/PG-365

A P320 Subcompact with a medium grip frame might be a better fit for your friend. I have medium-sized hands, and I'm right in between that and the P365. The P320SC (medium) feels a bit large to me, and the P365 feels a bit small, but they are both manageable.

That said, the P320SC is never going to work as a pocket gun unless you wear cargo pants all the time.

quote:

Originally posted by vthoky:
Looks like it's just a matter of pushing out one pin?

Yeah, swapping the FCU is as simple as driving out 1 pin!

OTOH, yesterday I changed out the mag catch to an extended version and the standard trigger to a Grayguns straight trigger. That does require a much higher level of tolerance for amateur gunsmithing and the risk of F'ing things up. I had the takedown lever not seated properly after the trigger swap and it was about to cause major issues, but I figured it out...

quote:

Originally posted by vthoky:


Heck, I'd like to try a straight trigger. How tough to install is that?

It's a simple installation.