...that's NOT a 92FS or any other that has decocking mechanism supplementing the manual safety.

Q's rather enticing thread about his new Orange 2 and my own recent experiences with two similarly configured pistols got me thinking...

Just how important is a really nice/well executed DA trigger on a gun like that? Certainly correct me if I'm off with this, but from what I recall there's no decocking mechanism on the Orange, only a thumb safety that's so typical of most CZ semi-auto hammer guns. So unless one is manually thumbing down the hammer to the half cock position (on a loaded chamber!) there's actually no real situation where someone would regularly shoot the gun in DA, right?

I query because in the past month I've bought two DA/SA guns that are set up with thumb safeties with no decock function. Rather out of character for me, since my wheelhouse has always been centered around strikers, with the infrequent foray into a P-SIG, CZ, HK or 1911. But also it's reasonable to assume that this clouded my perspective in evaluating these guns. Anyways, my new 97B has a very predictably meh trigger action that has that stereotypical factory-assembled CZ pull, complete with loads of travel and creep and grit and lengthy reset (whew!) just like the DA their 9mm and 40S&W hammer guns have in spades. Relatively yucky stuff, this 97B's trigger. But not unexpected. And besides, I did okay with it and it ran reliably just like one should expect a CZ to do. It's a CZ after all.

Then came the gun that followed, which I didn't plan on but sorta fell into. It's the Beretta 92X Performance, which unlike the 97B does have a reasonably good DA pull, though the pull on mine is still kinda heavy (probably about 8 to 9 lbs) but its takeup is silken smooth without any hint of stacking points/hitching until the reaching its break point. Admittedly I initially was rather disappointed with the weight of the DA pull because our display 92XP at the shop has about a 4 1/2 to 5 lb weight to its DA pull. Feels Really Nice, and arguably makes our WC trigger-massaged Centurion seem a bit second fiddle. Felt so 'bummer' that the one I wound up with wasn't as sweet.

But I did eventually come to realize that it's rather pointless for me to judge my 92XP or the CZ in this manner, since like the Orange there's NO decock mechanism built into either gun. Given their manual of arms, they'll always be shot in single-action unless a restrike is needed, or if me the shooter does some risky manipulation of the hammer. One of those light bulb on, epiphany moments that I sometimes but too rarely have these days. Certainly I'm not particular fond of the idea of pulling the trigger while thumbing the hammer down to half cock with a round in the chamber, just to get a feel of how well I can shoot the thing in DA, something I'd never do at any time beyond just being stupidly curious.

Before the reality check, I actually thought about sending the 92XP to Langdon to have that DA pull addressed. Seems kinda dumb now, but that's how stupefied I was with my disappointment that "MY gun didn't have a 4-5 lb DA trigger pull". Frankly it doesn't need it because it will never be used. Conversely the XP's saving grace is its rather "tight" SA operation. Still seems a bit heavy at break (around 4-5 lbs) than I might otherwise prefer for SA, but virtually no creep to speak of and a commendably short reset with minimal to virtually nonexistent takeup upon reset for the next pull. That SA trigger really oozes 'precision' if one can imagine such a thing. The only criticism I have is in the amount of 'excess' overtravel, but even for me that just seems like nitpicking for the sake of nitpicking.

Anyways, I'm curious as to how others feel. Is highlighting the DA operation really an appropriate barometer for judging guns that are set up like these? I really am not seeing the point to that.

quote:

Is highlighting the DA operation really an appropriate barometer for judging guns that are set up like these?

Yes. Shadow 2 and 92X Perf are purpose built competition guns mainly intended for the divisions that require the first shot to be fired in a double action mode. While for you the endeavor may not rise beyond "just being stupidly curious", thousands of competitive shooters manually decock those and other similar guns dozens times per a training session and at least half dozen times in a match.

^^^ Yet without a decocker the shooter will have to manually thumb the hammer down on a loaded chamber. Not being into competitive shooting, I didn't realize that this was a thing.

CZ and TZ DA/SA have been taking IPSC Production market share away from Glock etc. because the rules require the first shot be DA or Glockish equivalent at 5+ lbs. So the Glock will have a 5+ lb pull all the time but the CZ will drop off to a minimum of 3 lbs for the rest of the stage.

USPSA Production does not have that requirement, if you can get the gun to fire with a DA or striker of less than 5 lbs, you are welcome to do so. But the CZs are still coming in because the trend is to heavier guns and iron is heavier than plastic.

There are mechanical decocker CZs but competitors use the safety models because it is easier to improve the trigger pull.

quote:

Originally posted by monoblok:
^^^ Yet without a decocker the shooter will have to manually thumb the hammer down on a loaded chamber. Not being into competitive shooting, I didn't realize that this was a thing.

There are techniques that work very well, especially with gaming guns and their reduced weight hammer springs.