I was just reading cslinger's thread on the ASP Super Target. It's a good looking air pistol and, controlling for cslinger's disclaimers, seems to promise to shoot well.

But it only offers 450 FPS. And, after a few years of fooling with CO2 replicas of service pistols, I am sooooo sick of pellets that are not only visible in flight but visibly following a chucked pumpkin's oh-so-high arc.

I understand that there are European governments that impose greater restrictions on the ownership and use of air guns capable of generating higher velocities (specifically with conventionally weighted pellets). But we don't live in Europe anymore, and neither does the core of SIG.

So how 'bout it, SIG? Can we please have an air pistol that shoots a bit straighter and perhaps shoots a bit straighter just a little bit further out?

It depends on what you want?

Most of us, at least in the United States, even in the most restrictive environments have easy access to a plethora of real firearms that give us REAL power.

Airguns tend to be target affair and velocity and power really don't play into this at all and in many cases are limiting to target shooting performance or at the very least the shooters ability to handle them as they can be difficult to shoot.

To get an air pistol with any kind of "power" behind it you are going to need a PCP or a handful of spring pistols. There are powerful PCP air guns (relatively speaking) and the HW45 and Diana LP.....something or other the name escapes me are fairly powerful spring guns but are much harder to shoot.

So what are you looking for? I have shot my air pistols out to 50 to 60 feet and they work just fine. Are you looking to reach out to 25 yards or are you looking to kill pests? Generally an air rifle is better for both.

Also 450fps is probably a bit optimistic as well.

This guy will get you in the 600ish fps give or take neighborhood and is a self contained spring piston gun (not a SIG branded gun of course) It will, however, make you WORK for your accuracy as these things recoil like a sonofabitch. I know that seems stupid to say and I don't mean it like a .44 magnum but the spring dropping forward slamming into the breech, bouncing back, vibrating all while the comparatively slow projectile meanders its way out of the barrel definitely provide a challenge.

HW45/BEEMAN P1 .177


Chris

No, I get the bouncing spring thing.

For me the big deal about airguns versus conventional firearms is that its easier to go shooting with an airgun just because there are more places to go and most people see them as non-threatening.

As for what I want, I'd be happy with a relatively flat trajectory (say, +/- 2.5") out to twenty yards and enough speed that I can't see the pellet just to be sure the pellet's well stabilized. I think that's not asking for too much just because I'm not asking SIG for anything I can't get by putting one, two or three pumps into ye olde Crossman 1377.

This one is only 460 FPS. I find it excellent at 10 yards. Which is also my backyard range distance.
https://www.airgundepot.com/izh46m.html

^^^ I have to admit, I still regret not picking one of those up back when they were relatively plentiful and (IIRC) somewhere under $400. One of my great mistakes as a gun nut was not focusing on sporting and civilian firearms (air- or gunpowder-powered) that came out of Russia early enough.

Even there, though, the big selling point is that these were originally built (and not too long ago) for high-level competition. Under those circumstances, yeah, it's easy to see someone making an informed decision to get a dedicated 10 meter pistol.

Personally I'd love something like a 226 replica that produces velocities like those of cslinger's HW/Beeman so that it would be easier to shoot a series of soda cans set up at different distances in my back yard. At the very least, since the ASP is a rebranded single shot anyway, it would've been nice if SIG had produced a newer design to compete more directly with the HW/Beeman.

The problem with say a P22x style replica shooting at 600ish FPS is size. You would never get the power plant to fit a similar size envelope. You could probably do something with PCP but then you would likely be constrained to very few shots.

The HW45 and even the SSP 75 are fairly large pistols and although they can mimic a 1911 grip they don’t mimic the feel due to the size and dimensions needed for the power plant.

I remember reading years ago that there was an attempt or an actual product that used pre charged pneumatic charged in an individual “cartridge” if you will. You load a pellet and fill the cartridge with a charge of air for one shot and you cycled to the next etc. that could make for an interesting replica if technically feasible.

when you go above 600fps in a pellet gun, they get loud. Even my moderated daystate 22 at 870fps shooting an 18grn jsb is stupid loud in an indoor setting.

so, a pistol pushing a 9-11 grain 177, or 14 grain 22 at 600fps is going to be loud. Nearly 22 standard level. At that point why?

With that cost of the pellet pistol running you 900-1400 for 600fps.

You can buy 10000 rounds of CCI 22lr 40 grn segmented HP ammo shooting at 710 fps.

or
Aguila Coligri 22l4 ammo 20grn solid point, 15k for 999 bucks at 350fps,

or

Agauila Super Solibri 22lr 20 grn solid point @ 590 FPS for 1059$

So, after 450 fps, 22lr is much more cost-effective at the same volume level. Buy a 10 shot revolver, and plink with the standard Colibri.
At 450 and below. A 177 10m air pistol is a joy. Yeah, it isn't a true recreation of a combat pistol. It is still fun to shoot.

You have a point about volume levels. My .177 HW45 does indeed BARK. Where my .22 HW45 running much slower is much more pleasant.

PCP guns definitely bark. In some cases louder then. .22LR

That said legally you can generally shoot an air gun in more places then a powder burner (check your local laws / not always the case).

I handled and shot the SSP Sig pistol right next to the reigning champ in that price range, the FAS 6000.

IMNSHO, Sig is flat outta their minds pricing it that high. The front sight is a smooth ramp, molded(fixed) part of the slide. Trigger is similar to a stock 1911, with plenty of creep in the take-up before the break. Also a smooth face, IIRC. IF it had a 210-style thumb-safety, and was priced south of $150, it might be a nice 'trainer'. As it stands, the China-made $40 Beeman HW-clone has better sights and trigger

The FAS is far superior in sights and trigger for pure target use. It also appears to have better machining and finish.

I generally agree about the overall finishing and sights compared to the FAS, although in this application I like the more traditional handgun sight picture.

I think the fit and quality is on par with the FAS. The finishing definitely less so.

Accuracy so far, at least gun for gun rested in my examples is pretty much equal.

I agree with the trigger feeling 1911ish but mine feels better out of the box then You describe. That said out of the box my FAS is better as well and more conducive to target work. Both can be adjusted.

All that said I don’t think the SIG is a $150 pistol at all. Would I price it less then a FAS 6004? Yes but certainly not more then half the price. In today’s market with the fairly limited playing field the ASP is playing in, I think the pricing is fair. It could be a bit cheaper but I don’t think the price is out of the question.

I do own and can directly compare it against the following “competitors”.
HW40
HW75
IZH46 (which really is more a true 10m capable competition gun)
FAS 6004 (mine is the ambi non target grip model)

I think it compares fairly favorably with all of them. It does however feel more like a semi automatic pistol understudy then a 10m target gun.

Just my 2 cents and we all know what that’s really worth.

Take care, shoot safe.
Chris.

quote:

Originally posted by cslinger:

I do own and can directly compare it against the

HW40
HW75
IZH46
FAS 6004

I think it compares fairly favorably with all of them.
Chris.

WOW, you have all of those in that price-range that are readily available on our side of the pond. Nice! I have had a couple of shots through the others you mentioned, mostly at the dealer. That day, all I could compare the ASP against was the FAS with the same, ambi-grip.

All are excellent choices, naturally. I don't know that I would choose either of the HW's to compete with, other than against a friend or neighbor equally-armed. I think the FAS and IZH are a step-up toward the goal of a four-figure air-pistol, if one aspires to that. I regret not scoring one of the Baikals when they were so cheap, years ago, LOL.

Yes......I have a problem but I can stop anytime I want. ......maybe....... ok probably not but it’s not like hookers and heroin....don’t judge me.

Seriously though I completely agree that the FAS and more so the IZH46 are real competition level pistols (in hands far removed from mine). The IZH with grips custom fit is literally a 10m pistol and leaves the others behind.

The HWs and the SIG are more VERY accurate plinkers so to speak. Not 10m one hole stuff.

The HW75 is probably the best overall quality of them all and has the best trigger of the SIG and HW40. The HW40 technically has the same or similar trigger but just doesn’t feel as good as the 75. The SIG is the worst but still perfectly adequate if a little spongy out of the box (I haven’t dorked with trigger).

For SSP pistols for the average person looking I would suggest the HW75 first.

That said I still feel they all compare reasonably favorably amongst each other given their price range.

I have no experience with the old Gamo compact / Current Air Venturi version of that pistol so I cannot speak to that one........yet.......again it’s not a gram of heroin dammit.

I also have a couple HW45’s which are wicked fun and can be accurate but are hard task masters because comparatively speaking they recoil like a sonofabitch!

Take care, shoot safe.
Chris.