i believe there are enough shooters and collectors who remember the quality that Sig used to promote and sell. Yes, the new models sell well, are reliable most of the time and I have a bunch. they work, and work very well.

But I am also damn sure there are plenty of us who would spend out hard earned money on real quality. The same reputation that made SIG what it was and almost is today. it's like living on borrowed time or on resting on your laurels. Its great Sig won the Military over - that's income for generations. Now let's go back to basics and your real fan base. There is only so much good will until Sig just becomes boring - the bling doesn't work on most serious shooters. Quality does.

Let's see some serious X-5's and X-6's out of the real Mastershop. Handmade quality with high tolerances and real polished, worked parts. Sig would crush it. It isn't nostalgia or the good old days - there have been some really good innovations. Capitalize on them and I'd gladly pay for a custom model, with no gold or bling. Just like thousands of others would.

Except, as it has been shown, the same German Mastershop that’s been far guiltier than Sig USA for even nastier pimpalicious guns for Wilson Combat money with no performance improvements at all.

At least the Spectre Comp is a nice gateway into Open division with a useful feature like the nice built in compensator. What exactly does the X5 “Golden Nugget” built by the Mastershop on the previous page do better than the P226 X5?

Not disagreeing. I don't like the bling, don't remotely want the 24K piece on the other page. But the Mastershop "regular" pieces were and still are a pleasure to shoot, even competitively. I have a 226 X-5 w/ threaded barrel that was my HD gun for years. Even taking it out to the range now is fun. I don't think their current 320 X-series is remotely the same (I have the regular X-5, the Legion, and a regular 226 Legion among many others). The German 210's today are also good but are a world apart from the guns that were made. If Sig were to focus a bit on a real mastershop they could do great things.

quote:

Originally posted by DanH:
Except, as it has been shown, the same German Mastershop that’s been far guiltier than Sig USA for even nastier pimpalicious guns for Wilson Combat money with no performance improvements at all.

At least the Spectre Comp is a nice gateway into Open division with a useful feature like the nice built in compensator. What exactly does the X5 “Golden Nugget” built by the Mastershop on the previous page do better than the P226 X5?

Ahh yes, The Mastershop.....

Snipped from the web:



Their X-Five Samurai was one of the most 'unforgettable' in my mind's eye though there were plenty others nearly as bad. Once seen, it's impossible to forget no matter how much hard liquor one imbibes. Though it's hardly "pimp" in the ghetto sense (no gold, for instance) but definitely egregious in its outright gaudiness. There's the basic bones of a P226 in there...someplace...I think.

Germans gunsmiths livin' it up like it's the 14th century all over again. Baroque never had it so good.

As for the current trend of Guccification of firearms: I think it another example of people personalizing their possessions. SIG (and other companies as well) by offering these sorts of "modded" variants most likely hopes to cash in with the lazier types in the room...or those who don't trust themselves to cobble up a blingy gun without somehow breaking it along the way.

The TiN finish doesn't bother me nearly as much as lightening cutouts and similar gratuitous 'skeletal' slices and dices do.

I think Sig is doing the opposite of STI/Staccato. Staccato practically abandoned the competition market for the LE/Self Defense market while Sig is using their excess capacity to break further into the competition market.

However, something I think we all agree with is there’s someone at Sig that loves the foo foo garbage that needs kidnapped at sent to Taurus.

Dan might be onto something. Somebody from New Hampshire needs an all expenses paid trip to Brazil. One way ticket only. Lol

You said Staccato. Why sweet baby sausages did they think putting the rear sight on the optics plate was a good idea? Did they not hear us bitching about Sig doing it? Stop the madness. Say it slowly gun makers, optics plate and separate rear dovetail. Make that happen.

Everyone seems to think the blingy guns are failures for SIG. But SIG keeps putting them out. This tells me one thing, they sell, and sell for good money. And they've been doing it long enough that they must think (or actually know for a fact, because they have the actual numbers on this) that the bling guns don't hurt sales of the plain jane guns.

The exception to this is that some people who'd buy plain jane guns, and send them out to be pimped out, are buying SIGs factory bling guns. The latter fact is actually the point of the process.

I will mildly disagree. I think when you have a government contract to supply widgets it gives you the room to be less than business savvy.

For potential examples I give you Colt, they routinely ignored and didn't GAS about civilian stuff until they lost contract. Okay Industries, loses govt contract quits making mags. Beretta ignored the reality of business for quite awhile during the M9 contracts.

You get to ignore the buying public, either drag your feet on new products (Beretta) or bring out silly products (Sig) and you still have a good payday regardless.

If Sig lost the contract that is when I suspect you would see what really makes money. Combine that with the last 2 years where anything you build someone will buy didn't help.

I see Spectre's sitting in the gunshop every time I walk in. An 1100 dollar 365 isn't running out the door. My anecdotal opinion. The "hot price" tags kind of indicate that as well. This Spectre will sell well, the others I bet don't. Of course at their price point maybe they don't have to sell well because in reality how much extra does it cost to etch "custom works" on the side of a 600 dollar pistol and then charge 1100?

quote:

Originally posted by pedropcola:
Beretta ignored the reality of business for quite awhile during the M9 contracts.

I know during this time that Beretta really wanted to prove they could do more than just the 92, but how much spare capacity did they have to put out things like the Vertecs and the Elites? During the heights of the War on Terror, Colt had to junk their revolver line to make space to build more M4s.