At a recent match, there was much discussion about the frequency that competitors clean their 2011 magazines. Several guys clean their magazines each time they hit the ground. I haven’t cleaned my Glock mags this year.

Which got me to thinking. With all of the agencies that have authorized Stacatto, how are they getting by the level of maintenance that these magazines require? Or do they not require that much maintenance?

Didn’t want to hijack the current Stacatto thread.

When I ran a 2011 in USPSA Open Division back in the day, at a minimum, I brushed out the inside of every magazine that landed on the ground in a shooting bay.
Not that they always needed it, but when match placement is tanked with a malfunction, and you might be paying a decent sum for a match fee, it makes sense.
I have shot USPSA Area 7 Championships on the south shore of Long Island, New York. The berms and shooting bay floors are white beach sand. It makes even more sense there.
I also witnessed a fellow competitor accidentally step on a magazine there, which drove it down into the sand, never to be seen again.
With a sand environment, removing the base plate, magazine spring, and follower was always standard procedure.

https://www.shootersconnection.../Arredondo-Mag-Brush

https://www.shootersconnection...gazine-Mop-Brush-Kit


This will keep your 2011 mags running most of the time without disassembling them, most of the time.
All it takes is a tiny pebble or a 1/4 teaspoon of sand inside the magazine tube, and then you are cursing!

But it still doesn’t answer the question of how LE is getting away with not doing, because I promise you cops aren’t cleaning mags EACH time they hit the ground.

And why is it that if I shoot a Glock or 320, I don’t have to clean mags religiously. When I use the mags in a 2011, the laws change?

When I shot USPSA in Greenville NC the range was very sandy, and mags that hit the ground got cleaned before being loaded again. I’ve seen dirty/sandy mags dropped there lock up a gun.

I haven’t shot since Covid so I dunno. Still have my edge and gear though

I don't own or shoot any Glocks or P320 models regularly.
I've fired several Glock & P320 models in the past, but they aren't on my "gun" radar.
Simply not my thing. I guess personally, in handguns for serious tasks (ie: social work)
whenever possible, I will be carrying something that's DA/SA.

If I'm competing now in USPSA Production Division with a Sig P226 SSE and
using Mec-Gar magazines, I still clean them "if" I feel or see a load of grit inside.
Why, a few minutes of maintenance prevents a possible malfunction.

As far as LEO/2011 users not cleaning magazines, I don't know that answer.
I'm not in that line of work.
I would guess that a smaller percentage out of all sworn Officers (LEO 2011 users)
might actually be "gun people" and the others, they simply don't know or care.
That's a shame, because in that line of work, pulling the trigger and not hearing
a "bang" can get you killed. Instead of a loss of match points & further down the competitor
finish list.

Maybe it's a carry over from using highly reliable polymer service pistols
before transitioning to the 2011 style.

I have had really good luck with the Staccato "Gen 2" magazines. I have not used them or the gun for work but I have effectively never cleaned any of mine and have never had an issue that was due to dirty magazines.

My guess is that there is a combination of practice and lore from older, less reliable 2011 magazines, plus some actual decrease in reliability for competition use when you get to swapping base pads and spring/follower combinations.

I similarly never clean my Glock or Walther magazines and they get used quite a bit. I did have a Walther mag get moon dusted in a dirt bay at a match last week bad enough that the rounds would just dribble out of it. That one I ended up removing the base pad from, wiping out the tube, and reassembling and it was fixed.

So as far as how the LE guys that are carrying Staccatos are getting away with it...

1) Most of them, even the guys with 2011s, are probably not actually training much.

2) Among those who train regularly, many of them probably have dedicated duty and training mags.

3) The current Staccato mags (made by Checkmate I believe) are reliable enough in factory form to not have as many issues. I would also throw in there that (as you know) many LE ranges have concrete or grass surfaces, so you probably see less dirt ingress as well.

quote:

Originally posted by jljones:
And why is it that if I shoot a Glock or 320, I don’t have to clean mags religiously. When I use the mags in a 2011, the laws change?

One part is that 2011 magazines are sized to feed 38 Super/45 ACP length cartridges and were adapted to fit 9mm. There's a lot of extra room inside one of those magazines vs a P320 or Glock 17 mag. That extra room also allows ammo to spill out the top is a full magazine is dropped. There's also the fact in competitions there people are monkeying around with the magazines to get more ammo into them which makes them less reliable.

And now I am feeling quite akward!
I have never cleaned a single firearm magazine in my entire life.

Granted I don’t shoot as many of you all but I have a few guns with some decent round counts.

^^^^^^^^
You kinda make my point about cops and cleaning magazines.

People are more willing to stuff sand in their $550 gun than they are their $3.5k gun.

quote:

Originally posted by cee_Kamp:
I have shot USPSA Area 7 Championships on the south shore of Long Island, New York.

"Westhampton Beachistan" Sand in everything. Grit in everything. Optics coated. Sore throat the next day.

Why did I have 20+ 1911 mags to shoot Single Stack? ^^^ That's why.
(And I learned through expense, frustration and heartbreak which mags worked better than others there.)

The magazines was always the Achilles heel on the 2011, probably for a lot of reasons. Less standardization in the early days. Originally there were no off the shelf guns, they were all hand built and the magazines tuned by the builder. Maybe that allowed a lot "not our problem" and wide variance in specs by the makers. Add in "Race mags" with little tiny followers designed for squeezing the most possible rounds into the gun, designs you would never use of you weren't trying to squeeze in one more to get that 30th round in, rather than stable designs meant for reliability.

From what I gather, 2011 mags are better and cheaper these days.

This question reminds me of troops and magazines in the sandbox. If memory serves, Beretta 92 magazines were modified to be more sand tolerant.

If so, does it point to engineering design as a mitigating solution for dirty magazines? Could these sandbox modifications be adopted by any manufacturer to bring more tolerance to the sporting sports?

^^They did. They’re called Glock mags. But, 2011 guys insist that when buy a 2011 pistol that takes them, I have to clean them every time they hit the ground.

Cuh-lean?

I do not know this word.

Magazines have holes in them... Won't the dirt just fall out?




But seriously, though I've never owned a 2011, I rarely ever clean magazine internals. I'll give the outside of metal mags (especially blued) a quick wipe with a lightly oily rag when I'm doing the same to the gun itself. Otherwise, barring some extenuating circumstance like standing in a downpour, jumping into a mudhole, or training in a sandstorm, I only wipe out the inside of my mags when I disassemble them for another reason, like to change mag springs or baseplates. Which is to say, once in a very blue moon.

So yeah, I guess I'm the stereotypical cop when it comes to magazines.

I also don't know anyone who uses a Staccato on "real" duty. The neighboring county's sheriff's office admin carries them ($300 Glocks for the peasants and $3000 Staccatos for the brass), but they're not rolling around on the ground.