I think perhaps Jeffery Laboski put it best when he described a situation as a "bummer". I share in this ascertain about this current situation regarding the P320, this is indeed a "bummer"........man.

I am bummed to find my judgement in investing in this weapon system was potentially flawed. I don't make this statement lightly or without a wealth of experience with the P320.

Some background:

I wrote about my particular bruce gray tuned P320 which had north of 30k rounds through it. Most of those rounds, in high round count training courses, by the best civilian trainers around. In all those courses it performed admirably over the course of 2 years.

The larger issue is, It's got four brothers. One of them an X5. Counting mags, triggers, sights, grips, and holsters. I probably have 5k dollars wrapped up in the system. The biggest issue Is, I bet my life on it most days.

The last thing I want to see are videos depicting a major flaw in its design. Did they truly not know about this issue? Is the issue a fake?

I do not want to jump to conclusions but man, maybe I should sideline these guys until this plays out. They have all been really great reliable firearms but I don't usually drop them. However, we train people not to grab guns on the way down, let them fall......

I think I need a White Russian.

You should join the already running thread on this issue.

It is a mile long. Lots of rumors. Waiting to hear from Bruce Gray. JJ jones is not worried. I own some as well, not concerned myself.

Glad mine departed the pattern last month, for a multitude of reasons.

Hadn't carried it or fired it in a year, so it needed to go regardless of the recent <OH-SHIT> by SIG. Just glad I got it gone beforehand.

Here's my Cliff Notes version

An unsourced rumor circulated that Dallas PD had an ND during training and a 320 being dropped was the source of the ND. Nothing was in writing or a first person account. Supposedly, DPD banned the carry of any 320s. After a few days, DPD put out a statement that there was NO ND during training but some Lt. got spooked by what he read in a Sig manual. It essentially said a dropped gun might discharge. Sig put out a statement there are NO reports ANYWHERE of NDs from a drop. DPD says they are satisfied and everyone went back to work.

Then, just as this blew over, OmahaOutfitters released a video showing 320s can discharge when dropped in such a way that the slide backplate and frame hit simultaneously. They used factory ammo with bullets removed, both range and SD types. They came up with a theory that different weights of the trigger itself seemed to be a cause. Their X5 sample passed, other 320s failed. Drops were multiple and high enough they broke a beaver tail.

This dealer decided to stop selling any 320s. Not long ago, they gave the 320 line very favorable reviews. Sig was made aware of the tests. The video was released just Monday.

I'm willing to bet some of my summary is wrong. I took my new 320c RX to the range today, along with my 2014 sample 320C. They performed very well but I did not drop them.

^^^^
Don't forget CT cop filed a lawsuit for an ND/AD when dropping a loaded, holster P320 and it apparently discharged, striking him in the leg.

I'm guessing there will be a voluntary recall for a Glock style trigger or some other lightweight trigger replacement.

The refinement would be:

SIG put out a statement that there were no drop fires in the "commercial market", but they were negotiating a settlement with a CT cop who claimed a drop fire before they made that statement.

If I owned a P320 I wouldn't worry about anything until I heard from Bruce. That goes doubly for a gun that he or any other reputable smith worked over. He didn't say any particulars about his previous drop testing just that he seems to have done a bunch of it. I am sure he will try and replicate the exact tests done by Omaha Outfitters and let us all know. That is if he has not done so already.

Until he says anything though, while I have no reason to doubt the Omaha Outfitters video, I would just keep on keeping on. Wait to see what he says and then, depending on what you had him do to it, you might even want to talk to him to see if your tuned example might not be anything to worry about since it isn't a factory P320 anyway.

quote:

Originally posted by leonidas211:
I think perhaps Jeffery Laboski put it best when he described a situation as a "bummer". I share in this ascertain about this current situation regarding the P320, this is indeed a "bummer"........man.

I am bummed to find my judgement in investing in this weapon system was potentially flawed. I don't make this statement lightly or without a wealth of experience with the P320.

Some background:

I wrote about my particular bruce gray tuned P320 which had north of 30k rounds through it. Most of those rounds, in high round count training courses, by the best civilian trainers around. In all those courses it performed admirably over the course of 2 years.

The larger issue is, It's got four brothers. One of them an X5. Counting mags, triggers, sights, grips, and holsters. I probably have 5k dollars wrapped up in the system. The biggest issue Is, I bet my life on it most days.

The last thing I want to see are videos depicting a major flaw in its design. Did they truly not know about this issue? Is the issue a fake?

I do not want to jump to conclusions but man, maybe I should sideline these guys until this plays out. They have all been really great reliable firearms but I don't usually drop them. However, we train people not to grab guns on the way down, let them fall......

I think I need a White Russian.

It all does change my thoughts.

Example: I had my fully loaded and chambered P228 safe pistol get josteled when I was rooting around in the safe. I have never accidentally dropped a pistol with either hand in competition, use or training.

I saw it start to move but I couldn't reach it before it headed over an edge about 3.5 feet above the floor of the safe.

I had the typical urge to grab at it as it found its way down the rifles. My head yelled, "no" and I let it fall, believing it to be drop safe.

It hit hard. It hit on the ledge and piece of steel jutting up where the door closes. It did not fire. It left a straight line dent. Oh well.

At this point, I do not have the same confidence in the 320 right now.

I do know about many drop tests of the P320 but multiple sources are showing or describing the drop fire problem at a certain angle with, perhaps, a certain stock trigger.

The variety of sources seems to indicate that it is more than a Sig hater or the like.

I have sidelined mine for now.

That 320 really tied the room together though, man...

quote:

Originally posted by Sammael:
That 320 really tied the room together though, man...

If that is directed at me, I am a self defense pistol user. leonidas211 has put 30k through his P320 in what at times may have been hard use.

All I am saying is that having a question about whether your pistol will shoot up at you if dropped in the wrong way is a non-starter for me.

I want a pistol to fire every time I want and never when I don't. For me I have other great Sig alternatives so there is, admittedly, no real cost to being safe until more is known - for me.

My 320 is a range or competition pistol only because it is set up for that - no night sites or trigger that's set up for defense. Other Sigs fill that roll.

I guess I am alone and don't find comfort in ANY firearm being dropsafe.
I have dropped 2 guns.
The first being my 226 it was sitting on the table on some newspaper I got up from the table and as I raised up the paper snagged between me and the table rolling the pistol off the table. My first instinct was to get myself the opposite direction of the falling firearm.
Dropped my 27 while holding it in another holster with a bunch of crap in my hands. Same thing first thought is to get away.
This is silly to me. There are so many ways and angles that a firearm can be dropped snagged etc. I don't trust any to be drop safe.
I'll get around to buying a 320 this does not sway me.

quote:

Originally posted by Tubetone:

quote:

Originally posted by Sammael:
That 320 really tied the room together though, man...

If that is directed at me...

I think that was just a Big Lebowski reference (the rug), with the thread title sounding like the Dude and all.

My expectation on all this is a recall to refit with trigger shoes that have some kind of dingus. I'm surprised that there appears to be enough inertia to "pull" the trigger, and was very skeptical of the initial video and DPD stuff. I can't say I'm sold completely that there is an issue, but evidence is certainly mounting. Still, a big part of me is saying there's probably a better chance of getting a squib during a double tap than to drop a P320 exactly the right way, but then I guess a kaboom is less likely to result in a bullet hole. Another part of me says treat all firearms with due care and attention (i.e.-just don't drop the damned things). I know a dropped firearm in my 3-gun is immediate DQ (no, not Dairy Queen). But then again, a DQ is nothing compared to a GSW.

What I really don't get is the fervor. This is a bummer. But people are acting like the end of the world is nigh or something. Don't get me wrong, I'm bored and this is interesting. But it's not THAT interesting!

Anyway, I liked that the P320 didn't have a dingus, but I'm not gonna complain about getting one (assuming that's the fix, if one is needed).

So do we wanna place bets as to whether they do a center blade or a hinged trigger? My bet is on blade.

quote:

I guess I am alone and don't find comfort in ANY firearm being dropsafe.

I don't think it is a matter of "trust" for something to be "safe". It is more the feeling that if I manage to drop this one just right, it is going to fire.

I realize that is arguable, but if a P320 could be said to fire when dropped the right way 30% of the time, that is too "reliable" for me.

I want a gun far less reliably accident prone.

Thanks for the reference, BuddyChryst.

You know. With all the hundreds of thousands of P320 rounds fired by people from varied backgrounds and skill levels with no real reports of discharges, including outlandish people like Yeager demanding that students drop/throw 320s on the ground in his classes, some reassurance seems rational.

But, that it may go off if dropped is troubling. It may be an illusion that a pistol is drop safe but running is also an iffy proposition. I suppose one could watch the muzzle and try to dodge just in case.

As an IDPA safety officer and USPSA shooter, I just never saw a dropped pistol. Even during hand transfers in classes and other times at speed, I just never saw a drop. I guess I have been lucky for years.

Even so, a range surface is usually not hard like you'd often find at home or on the street or on the concrete test surface YouTubes.

Yawn. Good night.

quote:

Originally posted by BuddyChryst:
I think that was just a Big Lebowski reference (the rug), with the thread title sounding like the Dude and all.

That's like, your opinion, man.

If true yes this would change my feeling about the 320. With myself I've not invested a lot into the gun since I only have a lone 320C, nor do I even plan on getting any more. For me the 320 is an okay striker, not some second coming of Glock or some such nonsense.

But based on prior demand, I had been planning on placing another large order for them for the shop. Yet at this point it may not be as large an order as I was thinking a week or so ago. The nature of the internet is a cruel place. I've already seen how Springfield sales have been tanking for us; not that I'm really complaining given how I personally feel about their antics, except perhaps in regards to all of the 1911s of theirs that we still have. Guess I can't have it both ways...at least while we still have Springfields to sell.

But in regards to the 320, I don't like the idea of various 320 loitering around in our display cases given how soft the gun market is already. It doesn't do a retailer any good to hear about and deal with safety issues, not when there are so many other capable striker alternatives available. We didn't have many Ruger MkIVs in the shop at the time of their recall announcement. These days those two we have rarely if ever get shown. Buck Marks and the occasional Victory get asked for and sold instead. I can easily see the same happening with the 320.

quote:

Originally posted by Black92LX:
I guess I am alone and don't find comfort in ANY firearm being dropsafe.
I have dropped 2 guns.
The first being my 226 it was sitting on the table on some newspaper I got up from the table and as I raised up the paper snagged between me and the table rolling the pistol off the table. My first instinct was to get myself the opposite direction of the falling firearm.
Dropped my 27 while holding it in another holster with a bunch of crap in my hands. Same thing first thought is to get away.
This is silly to me. There are so many ways and angles that a firearm can be dropped snagged etc. I don't trust any to be drop safe.
I'll get around to buying a 320 this does not sway me.

Sure, just like you don't trust every safety aspect of your car to work in a collision.

But you feel better knowing that it might help out, and that your pistol should not fire.